Elizabeth Solomeina, co-founder of Flying Solo, shares her insights on the challenges independent designers face in the fashion industry. She emphasizes the importance of a sustainable approach to growth, the need for strategic planning before expanding into international markets, and the value of press exposure in building brand credibility. Elizabeth also discusses the significance of separating personal identity from creative work and offers practical advice for designers feeling stuck in their journey. The conversation concludes with an exciting announcement about the upcoming Flying Solo Awards, aimed at recognizing talent in the fashion industry.
About Elizabeth Solomeina
Elizabeth Solomeina is the co-founder and managing director of Flying Solo, an innovative fashion platform with flagship stores in New York City and Paris. Since 2016, she's built a space created for designers, by designers, supporting 250+ independent brands through retail, runway shows in Paris, New York, and Milan, and meaningful editorial exposure. Elizabeth is also a designer herself, which means she understands firsthand the challenges creators face when talent alone isn't enough to build a sustainable business. Flying Solo has been called the future of retail.
The slow journey is the most sustainable one for designers.
Independent designers often face challenges in scaling their businesses.
Press exposure is crucial for building brand credibility.
Designers should avoid overproduction to maintain cash flow.
Understanding different markets is essential for international expansion.
Feedback from customers is vital for product development.
A business mindset is necessary for success in fashion.
Designers should separate their identity from their creations.
The first two years of a fashion business can be particularly challenging.
Flying Solo aims to celebrate unseen talent in the fashion industry.
Interview Themes
What should independent designers know before expanding internationally?
Expanding internationally means adapting to a new culture, not just selling in a new location. Customer preferences, sizing, materials, and buying habits often differ significantly from one market to another, and operational systems such as taxes, labor laws, and logistics can be complex. Designers should take time to research, test the market, and prepare financially before committing major resources. Sustainable international growth requires patience, flexibility, and a willingness to learn.
What is the most common early-stage mistake emerging brands make?
Overproduction. Designers manufacture too much to reduce per-unit costs, tying up cash flow in unsold inventory. It’s better to produce small runs, test demand, and scale gradually — even if margins are thin at first.
How should independent designers approach pricing?
Pricing should start with market positioning rather than just production costs. Designers need to research comparable brands, understand their target customer, and determine where their product fits in the market. From there, they can work backward to ensure manufacturing costs and margins support marketing, operations, and profit. A thoughtful pricing strategy reflects both brand value and long-term sustainability.
How do you drive consistent sales today?
Consistent sales come from treating fashion as a business, not only as a creative outlet. Strong financial planning, clear positioning, and steady customer relationship building are essential for long-term growth. Early customers should be nurtured carefully, as repeat buyers often become loyal advocates. When creativity is supported by business strategy, brands are better positioned to grow steadily over time.
Chapters
00:00 The Slow Journey to Sustainable Fashion
02:11 The Birth of Flying Solo
08:57 Understanding International Retail Challenges
13:21 Finding the Right Fit for Flying Solo
16:08 Strategic Moves for Brand Expansion
21:11 The Importance of a Sustainable Approach
22:49 Navigating Press and Publicity
29:24 Leveraging Press for Sales Momentum
35:38 Business Mindset for Designers
39:19 Advice for Stuck Designers
42:19 Future Initiatives and Awards
Transcript
Elizabeth Solomeina
It will be a slow journey at the beginning and it's fine, but the slow journey is the most sustainable one. Too many times designers get excited over produce and as a brand they will not even last two years. So that is the very sad truth about a lot of independent brands. I'm a designer myself. I want everything right now. I overspent so much money on my first collections because I wanted real golden diamonds. I wanted the best possible production. I obviously bet it on myself and produced more than I could sell at the time. So I made all of those mistakes. So trust me from both independent designer myself and someone who watched design after design after design every single day what challenges they face. Just trust me and try to avoid it. You'll thank me later.
Glynis Tao
Welcome to Chase Your Dreams, a podcast for fashion entrepreneurs who want to build a purposeful and profitable clothing business so they can make a living doing what they love. I'm your host, Glynis Tao, an apparel business consultant and SEO specialist with 20 years apparel industry experience. I'm also a mom to a wonderfully energetic little boy named Chase.
Today's guest is someone who's truly reshaping how independent designers show up, get seen, and grow in the fashion industry. Elizabeth Solomeina is the co-founder and managing director of Flying Solo, an innovative fashion platform with flagship stores in New York City and Paris. Since 2016, she's built a space created by designers for designers, supporting more than 250 independent brands through retail runway shows in Paris, New York, and Milan and meaningful editorial exposure.
Elizabeth is also a designer herself, which means she understands firsthand the challenges creators face when talent alone isn't enough to build a sustainable business. Flying Solo has been called the future of retail and in today's conversation, we're diving into what that actually means from reinventing retail and visibility to building community without losing the soul of the business. If you're a designer, founder or creative entrepreneur trying to grow without selling out, this episode is for you.
Let's get into it. Welcome, Elizabeth. It's so nice to have you here today. Thanks for joining me on the podcast.
Elizabeth Solomeina
Of course, Glynis. It’s so nice to talk to you today.
Glynis Tao
So you're both a jewelry designer and a retail platform founder. Take us back to the moment you realized Flying Solo needed to exist. What problem were you personally trying to solve?
Elizabeth Solomeina
Absolutely. So I started as a jewelry designer and I still am a jewelry designer even though Flying Solo takes the majority of my time at the moment. Any independent designer can relate to the problem that you grow a little bit. You created something and people start liking it. You start getting a few customers here, a few customers there, then you start growing your customer base. Now all of a sudden you start getting repeated customers, people here and there start talking about you. So you grow to a certain size to prove that your concept is needed, that people respond positively to it, and that they're willing to spend money on your beautiful accessories or clothing.
Then it comes to a point when you just don't know how to grow further because you either have to open your own store, which at that point, normally designers just don't have enough cash flow to do so, or you have to go wholesale. Again, when the wholesale sounds like something that you produce and they buy, reality is you have to finance everything upfront and with a lot of stores currently, not paying for wholesale and a lot of other problems that are happening within that industry. It's really hard for independent brands to go that route.
So turns out I wasn't alone with my problem. I always wanted to be the designer that is featured in Vogue and Harper's and a presentation during Fashion Week and runway shows and being in stores in Soho. Yeah, I was also dreaming about Paris, but how do you get there? That was the question that I asked myself many, many times together with my sister who is my co-founder in a jewelry brand. And then I met a lot of other independent brands that faced the same exact problem, that were all looking for the solution. So we basically were all looking for Flying Solo and it didn't exist at the time. It happens naturally. We first decided to do a few pop-up stores here and there and the concept was proving itself. So we all were very much in a collaborative spirit running those stores. First it was 10 of us, then when we opened our first flagship stores it became 30, then it's 50, then 100. Now we have over 250 designers at any given point.
Reality is we were all designers. So the very core founding members of Flying Solo are designers themselves. We knew what problems we had to solve and we're just simply solving it for ourselves. Of course, retail was the first immediate need because as an independent brand, what we all realized is the first need is not just to get to a retail store, but you need to be able to experiment with your collection.
Let's say you bring something and certain pieces are selling, certain pieces are not selling. If you go the traditional wholesale route, most likely only a few of your pieces of the collection sold, that will be it for you for that store. They'll never purchase from you ever again and you'll be just done. What independent designers really need is to bring that collection and say, hey, those few pieces are working for me. How do I build the next season on that? Or maybe I have the capability just to change it right away because customers say it's too tight on the shoulders, but otherwise they love it. The color is not what they're looking for, but maybe in a different color and they'll purchase it. So you start experimenting and bringing those pieces and little by little people start buying more and more. And that's how you build an actual brand.
And on top of it, very quickly we’ve come to realize that press is something that we all needed. You've been featured in a magazine, now everybody knows about you and runs to buy your pieces. I mean, unfortunately, or fortunately, press doesn't have that pull anymore because we are all bombarded with the social media and all the fashion starts living in the digital space. But when you are featured in a big magazine like Vogue, Harper's, L’Official, just to name a few, you start having a different status all of a sudden for a customer. All of your potential customers start seeing you differently. You know, just a cute little brand that they discover. Now someone who's been approved by the industry, it's a very big step for an independent brand. We saw it ourselves how pieces might be really great just displayed in Flying Solo, but once they get that editorial coverage, all of a sudden people say, oh, the brand posted that and this item was featured in Harper's. Can you take a look at it? And all of a sudden everybody is just interested in that particular item because they already have that industry approval behind it. So we started doing press for us, first of all, and then a bunch of other designers joined. And yes, it's been an interesting ride. We started Fashion Week half a year into Flying Solo. So we opened in, a little more than that, we opened in June of 2016. Our first runway show was February 2017. So we did our first big runway show. Honestly, even though we had so much excitement, I think only a few of us knew what the runway show really takes to produce. And thank God we somehow collaborated together and pulled it off the first time around. We did so many shows after that. I believe this New York Fashion Week, the upcoming one in a week from now will be our 46th show in total. So we did quite a bit. So we learned, we grew. Now we showcase over 70 brands in any given show and we made sure to organize it for designers the way that we want it to be organized. So all the production is taken care of. You as a brand just bring your collection and showcase it to the world. We'll take care of the rest. So that's the beginning of Flying Solo.
Glynis Tao
So, since then you've helped hundreds of brands, designers enter markets like New York and Paris. What do most emerging brands misunderstand about international retail before they try to expand?
Elizabeth Solomeina
You don't know what you don't know. The big thing is you might be successful in your own market and it's great. But first, what you're going to learn is that the taste of a customer is different in a different market. It absolutely doesn't mean that your brand should not go to a different market. It just most likely means that you have to adjust to that. Maybe different SKUs start selling better in a different market. You need to think of multiple things, including weather, including body shapes, which are very different. For example, European body shape average is very different from American body shape average and I'm not just talking about the size that Americans normally sell are bigger sizes, but also the shape itself. So in the US, for example, we have a bigger ratio between waist and hip, for example, that's much more normal compared to Europeans where the ratio is much smaller. So all of those things will impact how your clothing and accessory things will be selling in that market. Also, there are preferences in materials. For example, Europe cares much more about materials compared to the US. They want to make sure that it's natural. In terms of jewelry, they would rather buy solid silver than something gold-plated compared to the US that would rather buy gold plated than to leave it silver because shiny is better.
It's just part of a different culture. None of it is good or bad. You need to understand people. And I'll give you, I just gave you just a few examples about how different things are, but reality is so much more. And the only thing that you can do is come to the market, your collection, and see what's working, what's not working and adjust as we go. And please don't be discouraged if all of a sudden you were a successful brand somewhere else, like in maybe in your own country and came to a different market and all of a sudden nothing is selling. You know the failure. You just need to remember that even in your market you started somewhere. You started somewhere where no one knew you, no one cared about you and little by little you start building there.
Both the US and Europe are really amazing markets, but it takes time to get here. And with that said, even when the brand has enough capital to open their own stores, I advise you not to go this route at the beginning. You will do it at some point if you set for it and it's incredible. Then you can build your own store and decorate it however you see fit and all of those things and train your own sales staff and all of those, that's incredible. But at the beginning, you have so many challenges in your market that you simply don't know. You don't know the tax system. You don't know how to open the company. You don't know the banking system. And we went from the US market to the European market. And trust me, it is so different. Things that you never expect will be an issue became an issue. Things that do not exist. An issue that doesn't exist in the US, exists in Europe and vice versa.
If you sat on bringing physical retail, it's way easier to experience through us, for example, and see, okay, these things we learn and then we're ready to open our own store, which we had brands that did that. You grow sustainably, you experiment, you don't spend much money on rent, you don't need to train your own staff, you don't need to deal with taxes, with legislations, with all the laws that go within the country and if you don't know, just might do something that will not be good for your business. So you avoid all that and concentrate on your collection. Once you figure that out and learn how it works, then you're most likely ready to open your own store and that will be great. But in the meanwhile, just test it out. Trust me, everybody who went the other way and they came back to us, they're like, why didn't they just do it right away? I just simply do not understand.
Glynis Tao
Can you walk us through what Flying Solo looks for when deciding whether a brand is a good fit for your New York or Paris location?
Elizabeth Solomeina
Absolutely. So we always look for a unique point of view. So something that we have never seen before, the originality of the designs. And I would like to emphasize that we did take, obviously we take designers that are experienced already. So they’ve been in their business for multiple years. So maybe they are established in Europe and want to come to the US, but we also historically took a few very young brands. The ones that literally brought their sample collection and then we were able to grow together. One of the most incredible brands like this that literally came to us on the second month of the operation. Like Flying Solo was month one of operations and they were months too. So both baby brands. And the brand is APPARIS and now they stayed with us for a little over three years and they left when they started doing wholesale business with Saks and Bloomingdale. Now they are in Printemps, New York and they just had an incredible journey and grew very sustainably through us. But again, we took them in when they didn't know what they're doing. I mean, they admitted and they went through multiple iterations and it's a very good example how you need to think of yourself when you're starting a brand that you just don't know what you don't know and most likely it will take a lot of pivoting.
So for example, APPARIS started with shoes, then the ready-to-wear collection, then they realized that out of the entire ready-to-wear collection, only their vegan outerwear fur works and then they became known for outerwear that is vegan and majority vegan fur. So that became their niche. That's what they're known for. That's their core value right now. But again, they started with shoes and they just started seeing like what's, you know, what's working, what's not. And it took them a while, but you know, they figured out their big brand now and we're still really good friends with founders. So funny enough, their offices are very nearby Flying Solo. So we're running each other quite often and we’re so happy for them and how their journey unfolded.
Glynis Tao
Yeah, and you you’re all part of their success, which must feel really nice for you to see them as, you know, coming out as a new emerging designer and then now being so well known and successful. You were part of that journey.
So what are one or two strategic moves designers can make before expanding their brands, either internationally or just growing as a business that will dramatically increase their chances of success?
Elizabeth Solomeina
Well, you need to be ready because the new market will always take more money than you think it will. And it's very normal. So make sure that you're in a good position because no matter how sustainably you expand, it's still going to be an investment on your side as a brand.
Also, I highly advise not to overproduce ever. The urge for any brand is obviously to bet on yourself, to believe that whatever you just created is the most beautiful collection in the world that we've seen and it will be sold out. Reality, no one gets it right from the first time around. I think even the third or the fifth time around is very challenging to get it right. So the first time around when you did your samples and then you come to the manufacturer, they will say something along the lines like, hey, if you're only going to do 10 pieces, it will cost you $100 per piece. But if you make 100 pieces, it will only cost you $30 per piece. So very naturally designers always say, hey, if I'm making it only for $100, they even make any money on any sale, barely any, but if you manufacture for $30, then I'll make a much better margin, so might as well produce 100. That’s the first biggest mistake that any designer is going to make. I saw it over and over and over and over again when designers stuck with a warehouse full of their samples because the first time around, you don't know the manufacturer, but maybe they did an amazing result and everything was perfect, but that's not a given. Second, they might screw up your sizing. So maybe you thought that the sizing actually worked for your client in this market, but it just doesn't. Maybe you produce too small, maybe you produce too large, maybe it just doesn't fit the waist-hip ratio, whatever that is, it just doesn't fit the customer. Everybody might love it, but it's like, well, it doesn't fit me. It might still be very expensive for the client or so many other challenges need to be considered. So first, even if it's very expensive for you per item, produce as little as possible and bring that to the market. Bring it in front of the real customer. You might just do a small pop-up in front of your friends first and say, hey, this is my 10 pieces. I produce two of each and try it on, see if you want to buy it. They most likely at least give you feedback even if they're not going to buy, say, hey, I love this, but it really doesn't fit or I absolutely love it. Okay, here's my money, let me buy it. So this is a friends and family route. That will be your first one.
Then you can go to a little bigger crowds. You can apply to be a part of Flying Solo or you can do your own pop-ups for a bigger audience. So do something for a few days. Get someone else's place, get more people, invite them for cocktails or something. Again, try to see how they react to it. Since it's no longer friends and family, try to see what they're actually buying. Everybody wants to be nice to you because you're a founder, you put a lot of sweat and tears and soul into your creations. Reality is if they actually purchase it, it's a very good sign. So it means that the product market fit is there. And then you can go to bigger places again. Flying Solo could be one of places that you can go, but you can go other routes as well. So see what's actually working and produce little by little.
What I suggest to designers, the rule of thumb is even if you barely break even on your first production, so let's say you produce for $100 and with everything else that you had to pay for the drinks for the cocktail hour and for your friends space somewhere, you barely made any money or made zero on this. This is still a very good result. Now you learn out of 10 pieces, maybe five are selling or two are selling. And then you invest in production of those that actually sold and the rest you don't need to produce. So you won't be stuck with the warehouse of items.
On top of it, don't scale right away. So don't go from two to a hundred again. Do little by little. The very first group of your clients are most likely just your fans. Somehow they like you, maybe they like your personality, maybe they are friends of a friend, which is great. I mean, this is your first demographic of the ones that really like you. But then you will start expanding and it will be other people who might not be so kind to you and might be saying, I don't like myself in it. So things like that you need to consider. It will be a slow journey at the beginning and it's fine. But the slow journey is the most sustainable one. Too many times designers get excited, overproduce and as a brand, will not even last two years.
So that is the very sad truth about a lot of independent brands. I'm a designer myself. I want everything right now. I overspent so much money on my first collection because I wanted real golden diamonds. I wanted the best possible production. I obviously bet on myself and produced more than I could sell at the time. So I did all of those mistakes. So trust me from both independent designer myself and someone who watched design after design after design every single day and what challenges they face. So just trust me and try to avoid it. You'll thank me later.
Glynis Tao
I think everything you said was great advice and a lot of things that I hear is common amongst new brands and startups who tend to spend too much money in the beginning on inventory. Perhaps, they overproduce and all their cash flow is tied up, right? That is correct. And imagine that a lot of your brands are self-funded brands.
Elizabeth Solomeina
We do have a lot of self-funded brands. We also have brands that are a little bit on the bigger size. So they might already have a few stores in Europe, like their own stores, and they're going to, for example, to the US market. Or sometimes they even have stores in Europe, but they go to the French market through us because the French market is notoriously hard to deal with, with all their labor laws and a lot of other challenges that I don't even want to get into. Today, there are a lot of challenges to open your own company and run it there. So a lot of people just simply want to avoid it and just outsource this, that part of operations to us.
Glynis Tao
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and so you help them with that. Sounds like there's also a coaching component, a mentoring aspect to your business model, and on top of that, giving them space, right, a platform to sell their products. So yeah, like you mentioned, the one thing that designers often get wrong is overproduction. The second thing is pricing. So they're pricing their products properly for the market because in the beginning they just don't what. So is that something that you also help the designers with?
Elizabeth Solomeina
Yeah, well, we always say that it's up to them to put their first pricing based on their knowledge. But then once we see market reaction, we will advise them what people are saying and it is completely up to them what they want to do with this feedback. Because what everybody needs to realize, we only suggest something based on actual customer feedback.
I'll give you a really good example of how I personally, internally was probably very wrong and I never voiced my advice, but if I would, I would be completely wrong. We had an incredible brand for a very long time with us, Fiona Franchimon. And she'd been in both the New York and Paris stores. Right now, she grew to the point when she's in Galeries Lafayette in Paris and that's basically why she left us because she expanded too big. What she is as a brand is a tiny plastic hair accessory. So it's something between a pin and it's very cleverly made. It was basically, I don't remember the exact price, but it's somewhere about $25, $30 for one plastic clip. And when we receive it, we always have a policy of testing the product first in front of the customers and then giving feedback. Too expensive or maybe too cheap or whatever they say, so we'll give them feedback. And I was like, oh my God, this is like, it was only an internal thing. And I was like, oh my God, this is expensive for one thing. I was like, I hope she'll sell, but you know, in my opinion, in my limited research. What happened is what I didn't realize is she created a very unique thing. So the way it holds the hair was very unique. She was a hairstylist herself, so it didn't come from nowhere. And she created a lot of awareness around her brand. through bloggers and social media and things like that. So that was our best selling product in the beauty category for quite a bit. So it was just tons of people constantly, like, I heard that you sell Fiona Franchimon. Let me try it on. And as soon as they tried, they realized how good the thing is because they actually, kind of half of them didn't believe that it's going to work the way bloggers who presented like how easy it is. They come to the store, like, let me try it. Oh my God, it really works. I need to buy it. And she sold like sets of three and five and whatever the sets were. So I'm just saying like, we do not give that a feedback ahead of time because we only rely on the market.
Regarding the pricing and educational part in general, we do do quite a bit of education now and we posted on our YouTube channel, it's called Flying Solo TV. I talk a lot about different topics, but I repeat a few things like in a recent one that I did on pricing. So there are two ways of pricing. The first way, the most traditional way for how majority designers price it and it's basically manufacturing cost. That includes labor and materials and whatever else goes into production. Multiply by 2 is wholesale price, multiply by 2.5 is retail price. So basically if your production is 100, then the wholesale is 200, then your retail is 500. Simple. If you're never looking to go wholesale, then you multiply by three. But I do not think that in the age we live right now, this is the very best way to price your item. I would say go the other way around.
So the other way to price your item is to do your market research first. So let's say you're an independent designer who is doing bags. Find a successful business and successful is the main word here. So find a bag brand that's already doing good business. You know that they're selling in those price points, visible for people and find a similar bag. I'm not saying that, not saying design wise, but more or less try to understand what's there for the consumer—how it will look the same, maybe the same type of size material. Let's say it's a work leather bag that can fit a laptop so the same more or less type of person will consider it and see what the price point is from that work backwards. So if you ever consider doing wholesale divided by five, not doing wholesale, which is a very good idea right now, just going direct to consumer is a much more sustainable way for a lot of younger brands right now. So then divide it by three. And I'm saying by three because this way you allow yourself to have more marketing budget because you as an independent brand, if you go the online direct to consumer route, you need quite a bit of margins to support all the outreach that you're going to do, whether it's through Instagram ads, Facebook ads, whatever ads you're going to do, bloggers, whatever else.
So let's say your target price is 300, then you need to figure out, and that will be your job to figure out how to manufacture it up to 100. Lower if possible, but 100 should be your maximum price if you're never going to do wholesale. Then one third will be most likely your marketing budget and you'll have some logistics and whatever, and then the rest will be your profit. So that's how I advise all the brands to price their items right.
Glynis Tao
Great. I'm glad that you explained about your pricing strategies and the way that you see it and what is actually working because it can be a big challenge, I think, for a lot of brands. Just not even knowing how to price their products properly or understanding what the value of the product is.
So I just kind of want to switch to PR and publicity press exposure because you offer designers access to press and editorial exposure. So what do you see in terms of what separates designers who turn that exposure into momentum from those who don't?
Elizabeth Solomeina
Absolutely. So as I mentioned, at the moment that we live in, press is no longer just. It used to be 20 years ago. You open Vogue magazine, you sell something in it, you go in the store, see it and most likely purchase it. That's how it works right now. Right now, most likely you saw something on social media. That's how the majority of us will discover brands at the moment. Think of yourself as a customer. You're scrolling through Instagram, right? So you scroll and say, cute bag. All right, let me see him. Let me follow the brand. You go to the brand page and say, amazing designs. I like it. Price is good. And you need to see some kind of social proof that that brand is legit because you as a customer right now, you don't know. Maybe it's just a beautiful picture, but they will not ship it. Maybe it's terrible quality. So many questions will be in your head and for those designers who would argue saying like, hey, but we offer free returns. They can just order it and they'll return. It really doesn't work this way because just think of you as a customer. If you don't know the brand, you won't be just randomly ordering things.
You want to make sure that at least there is some kind of proof that it's a good brand. And that's when the press comes in. When you open the page and all of a sudden see that they've already featured in magazines. They've been in Harper's and Elle and other magazines. You saw it on their page, on the Instagram page. All of a sudden you start thinking, oh, they must be more established because otherwise how would editors hear about them? How would they even get to those editorials? Truly, there is a truth, a lot of truth in that because if you haven't been in the fashion game long enough, stylists would not know you. They will not pick you up for editorials, you will not be placed there. So there is already proof of how it went. And on top of it, it's a proof of the editor. The editor chose the picture, including, let's say, your bag, to be featured in their magazine. So that's the proof. And this way, it becomes much easier for a potential customer to buy.
On top of it, when you receive press, don't be shy about it. I always encourage all of our designers to just brag about it. It's your achievement. Your item went to the magazine and it got featured. So put it in your newsletter, put it on your wall in the office, in the frames like a lot of people do. It turns out they said that they sell a lot of things. Anywhere you can, maybe you go to a trade show after that, put it in the book. Maybe you are trying to offer your product to the stores to sell. Put it in. It works because even other stores are looking for the proof that you're already needed by someone else. No one wants to, I mean, very few people want to take a chance on a young unknown brand and God knows if they're going to sell. Everybody needs to make sure that you're going to sell in this this day. So that's how press works.
One thing that I want all of the brands to understand about press is there are a lot of press showrooms in New York and Paris and major cities. But unfortunately, the press showroom has a very bad reputation in general. Oftentimes when designers come to us, a lot of them are very skeptical about press and there is a reason for that. The reason is they've been to a few showrooms that told them that we're going to put you in all those magazines, all those celebrities half a year later after paying for six months, they get nothing. And their answer is that editors saw it, but they didn't like it. Showrooms normally work as if you've never been to one. It's a room full of racks where multiple designers are showcased. The stylist comes over and picks a few items, takes them to the photo shoot, and returns it back. If your item somehow is not appealing to their roster of talents that they have, it will just be there. And no showroom, at least in everybody who we knew about, never guaranteed any results, but we do. So we are Flying Solo. If any brand is signed up with us to be featured in our press show, we guarantee at least one editorial per month, and that's the very minimum. And the only way we do it is because we've been in the industry for 10 years, so we have a lot of friends in the industry that work with us. So it's happened from day one. We didn't promise it from day one.
Second, we collaborate on productions with magazines. So a lot of magazines co-produce photo shoots together with us. So this way we make sure that every designer that is a part of our press showroom, I mean, we have obviously a very big planning, it's very complex, but we know, okay, so we're shooting for this magazine and this type of editorial. So this and this and this and this brand will be a very good fit. So let's put it in front of this team so they can actually feature it. And this and this and this other brand will be a good fit for something else that we collaboratively shoot with another mix. And that's how we can guarantee that they will get those results that we need because really what breaks my heart about this industry, and I experienced it myself as a designer before flying, so everybody promised you the moon and then you pay the money and it's just not there. So we guarantee that and it also came from the needs from our designers because we know how important it is to get the press. But that's again just the beginning. What you do with this press is the most important thing because we deliver ourselves and then you are the one who has to go into the world and say, hey, my piece was featured there and there. And that will bring you a lot of results.
Glynis Tao
Okay. So you help them get there, get the press, but then what they do with that afterwards is on them, right? So from everything that you've seen across working with over 250 brands, what are those elements that you see that truly drives the consistency sales for a small fashion business today?
Elizabeth Solomeina
I would highly recommend any designer who is starting this game or in this game already. First, think about it as a business. So you're lucky if you have a business partner. So you're the creative side and you have someone who is in business. You're also lucky if somehow you happen to be business first and designer second. But if you consider yourself a true artist, you have to be careful here because fashion is not just about art. It's wearable pieces, the one that you have to consistently produce and consistently sell, and if your business has money, you can move forward. You can create a new collection. Even if, let's say, you make your money on the collection, but editors are not over the moon about your collection, but you still make money, you still have a customer base. So that's first. Then you can have the money to experiment and impress editors and impress the industry, but if you don't have money and you make something that is mega impressive and few people will feature it, you'll be done as a brand. So running out of money is the hardest, I mean, the saddest thing that can happen to the brand, but unfortunately the most common.
So you are a business first and every brand that was successful with us, they either had a co-founder that was in business or they literally said, I have never been a designer. I first was a businessman, a business woman and I just wanted to solve that problem that I had. Let's say I wanted to have the best work bag I can ever have and I went to a designer and we collaborated together and then I figured out how to manufacture it. So business first. And that's how I encourage everybody to think about it.
Glynis Tao
I think that's great advice just from myself talking with many founders and designers who have been in the industry and endured like decades in the business. And I just asked them, sort of like, what's the secret to your success and longevity? And they're like, well, they have that business support. If they are not, you know, experienced or business savvy, like themselves, they have someone that is. And typically how I see it is there is a designer who's the creative head, and then they have the business person and a marketing person. I see that as important elements in the business's success.
Elizabeth Solomeina
Exactly. And just to add to your thought, just as a designer, try to separate yourself from your creation because what happens really, and I experienced myself again, I'm a creative, I know exactly how it feels. Someone say, let's say says, I really don't like this drink. and you hear like, I don't like you, you are not good enough, you take it as part of you, your creation is an extension of you and you start, that's when the whole thing starts. So you are not your creation. You are a person and your creation is your creation. So separate them. And any critique, there'll be a lot of critique and there'll be a lot of people who don't like it. It's fine. You just need to get used to it and adjust as you go. Listen to the feedback, but not necessarily adjust to everything that you hear. So just separate yourself. Your life will be much easier.
Glynis Tao
I love that. And that kind of leads me to my final questions here before we wrap up. If you could give one piece of advice to a designer who feels talented but stuck right now, what would it be?
Elizabeth Solomeina
Absolutely. Well, first of all, go to the fashion industry only if you cannot do anything else. When you have the desire and to those who know what that is, you know exactly how it feels. I have this creation in me that needs to get out. You cannot imagine yourself doing anything else. So if you have this in you and I need to get out, I need to get out. So then start creating. But again, be business savvy and thoughtful of how you're going to do it at the beginning. Whatever your budget, even if you are really smart, it will take you three times more money than your budget initially. Just it is what it is. Just make sure that you have money in the bank. Maybe you have something else to support your business at the beginning. Maybe you work for someone else's design or however you make that additional income because it will be hard at the beginning, no matter how amazing your designs are. But that's when, that's what will separate the brands that are going to die within the first two years from the ones that succeed. The first two years of operations are hell. I mean, that might still be fun. You still might have a lot of celebrity wearing things. Maybe they right away start liking it, but it doesn't mean that you'll have a lot of sales. Maybe you'll have a lot of super fun parties like together with your friends and all dressed up, but it doesn't mean that you make sales. It might be on your lot and it's like, okay, if this one doesn't work, then I'm closing my business. I heard too many stories like this, but then just make sure to persevere through that part. And then once you figure out what you start figuring out, okay, this is one client, another client, another client, another client, you start building the database of your clients that constantly buy from you.
Season over season, they'll keep coming back for your items and they will be the ones, so appreciate them the most. They'll be the ones who'll be bringing their friends to your pop-ups. They'll be the ones who will be advocating on social media. That will be the one that will be posting your pieces on their own Instagrams, tagging you and saying, hey, this is the best thing ever. I know the person. They're incredible. The best quality, the best feed. Guys, look at it. It's not a paid promotion. I just love it.
So treat that first initial group very carefully, like one by one, it's fine. Don't expect it to be like hundreds of people right away know about it. If one more person likes your collection today and purchases from you and you maintain that collection, that might be a repeat customer over and over again. So don't underestimate it. Prepare for the first hard two years, I'm not saying they won't be fun, but it might be challenging otherwise. And then more likely you'll make it to the top.
Glynis Tao
Looking ahead, what excites you most about the future of independent fashion and the role Flying Solo will play in it?
Elizabeth Solomeina
Well, we have an incredible initiative called Flying Solo Awards, which is coming in June 2026 and it is open for everyone and applications are completely free. So what we decided to do is reward and showcase not just designers, everybody, including designers, but also photographers, hand makeup artists, set designers, the one that often goes unseen in the fashion industry.
So we'll celebrate those people. It will be an incredible gala with a big red carpet reception and we'll help those who deserve that. We already have incredible judges. We have Sophia Ellis-Bextor who is a British singer, as you know, that sings more on the dance floor. We have Stuart Trevor, who is the founder of AllSaints. We have Ty Hunter, who is Beyonce's stylist for 15 years. And many, many other incredible people that are already involved in the project.
If you're someone, including designers, we have the best editorial accessory and best editorial garment category. It’s a completely free application, please go to designer.flyingsolo.nyc/awards and apply within editorial where your products were featured or you were a stylist or set designer. We'll open the applications. We're open till the end of March. So hurry up and some people will be noticed and we'll give them that exposure that they really need.
Glynis Tao
Sounds amazing. I'll be sure to share that link with everybody in the show notes for this episode. Where can people find you if they want to get in touch with you?
Elizabeth Solomeina
Absolutely. So our tag is flyingsoloNYCM. So we have a team that monitors all the comments and DMs and everything. And if you're looking to apply for Fashion Weeks or Flying Solo stores, there are links in the bio about how to do that. So feel free to get in touch.
Glynis Tao
Thank you so much, Elizabeth, for joining me here today and sharing your story and journey with us. I really appreciate it. so thanks for reaching out and thank you for being here.
Elizabeth Solomeina
Of course, Glynis, thank you so much. It was such an honor to be on this podcast and I absolutely love our conversation. I really hope that it will help designers around the world.
In this conversation, Orly Shani shares her journey from a DIY expert to the founder of ROCKNOT, a profitable and scalable fashion brand that specializes in everyday statement bags. She discusses the importance of profitability, storytelling in marketing, and the lessons learned from her DIY days. Orly highlights the significance of customer feedback in product development and the evolving nature of her brand, which aims to fill a unique gap in the handbag market. With exciting new products on the horizon, Orly reflects on the continuous journey of creativity and innovation in her business.
About Orly Shani
Orly Shani is a Los Angeles–based television host, personal style expert, and DIY innovator. Orly first gained the fashion world’s attention on NBC’s Fashion Star, where her designs were picked up by major retailers like H&M and Saks Fifth Avenue. She then went on to host and contribute to shows including E!’s The Fabulous, The Today Show, and Access Hollywood. As a lifelong DIYer and personal style expert, Orly founded ROCKNOT, a multi-million-dollar accessories brand known for its everyday statement bag system built around interchangeable straps, handbags, and accessories. Orly’s work blends creativity, practicality, and storytelling, turning everyday ideas into standout products, experiences, and profitable, scalable businesses.
Storytelling is crucial in marketing and customer engagement.
Personalization and individuality drive product design and customer satisfaction.
Encourage and adapt to customer feedback.
Quality customer service enhances brand value and customer loyalty.
Communication strategies will differ depending on the social media platform.
Interview Themes
How does storytelling strengthen customer engagement and brand loyalty?
Storytelling helps customers understand not just what a product is, but why it matters. When brands educate and demonstrate how their products fit into everyday life, it removes confusion and builds confidence. Clear, authentic storytelling creates trust that turns first-time buyers into loyal customers.
Why is focusing on profitability essential for long-term business success?
Revenue alone doesn’t build a sustainable business—profit does. When a brand is profitable, it can reinvest, grow strategically, and operate without relying on outside funding to survive. A healthy profit margin signals that the product delivers real value and that the business model is built to last.
How should brands approach customer feedback?
Customer feedback gives insight into how products are used and perform in real life. Brands that stay flexible, by starting small and iterating often, can adapt quickly and improve without unnecessary risk. Treating constructive criticism as data, not discouragement, allows businesses to refine their products, build trust, and deepen loyalty.
Why does customer service impact brand value?
Customer service shapes the full experience of owning a product. When support is responsive and thoughtful, customers feel secure in their purchase and confident in the brand. Strong service reinforces pricing, builds credibility, and turns transactional moments into long-term relationships.
Chapters
00:00 From Creativity to Business Success
10:39 The Birth of ROCKNOT: A DIY Idea to Business
28:54 Bootstrapping for Profitability in Fashion
39:50 The Power of Storytelling in Marketing
51:41 Lessons from DIY: Personalization and Individuality
53:17 Exciting Future Developments for ROCKNOT
Transcript
Orly Shani
I think that there's a lot of intangibles when it comes to how a customer feels about the value. And I think that like a huge piece of it is your quality and your customer service. I totally get it's a splurge, no problem. But I have such confidence in the price point now because of the value that we offer across all areas, the product, the experience you have when you're wearing it in your life, the intention that's put into it. So it's versatile and multifunctional and you're getting a lot of use out of it. The customer service, and the fact that, I think that's a big part of it. I really do. The product itself is only worth so much for the customer. There is a whole other experience that they have that you really have to think about. We're customers, we've all been there, we know what it feels like. the experience like you would want for yourself. It's easy. Imagine your mom shopping. How do you hope she's taken care of? Like, what do want that to look like? Your sister, your best friend. so I feel like to me that is absolutely the most important and that's big chunks that I feel like add to the value, of the product on a whole.
Glynis Tao
Welcome to Chase Your Dreams, a podcast for fashion entrepreneurs who want to build a purposeful and profitable clothing business so they can make a living doing what they love. I'm your host, Glynis Tao, an apparel business consultant and SEO specialist with 20 years apparel industry experience. I'm also a mom to a wonderfully energetic little boy named Chase.
Glynis Tao
Today’s guest is someone who truly embodies what it looks like to turn creativity into a profitable, scalable business. Orly Shani first captured the fashion world’s attention on NBC’s Fashion Star where her designs were commissioned by major retailers like H&M and Saks Fifth Avenue. From there, she went on to host and co-host multiple fashion and entertainment shows, including E!’s The Fabulous, and became a familiar face as a style and DIY expert across platforms like The Today Show, E! News, and Access Hollywood.
But Orly didn’t stop at media success. As a lifelong DIYer and personal style expert, she noticed a gap in the market. Women wanted the glamour of a statement bag without the cost of impracticality. That insight led her to create ROCKNOT, an everyday statement bag system built around interchangeable straps, handbags, and accessories.
What started as a DIY idea has grown into a multi-million dollar brand bootstrapped, profitable, and built with intention. In this episode, we’re talking about what it really takes to go from idea to product market fit, how to build a fashion brand without chasing hype or funding, and why storytelling and clarity are just as important as great design. So let’s get into it.
Welcome Orly. It’s so nice to have you here today. Thanks for joining me on the podcast.
Orly Shani
It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Glynis Tao
Orly, I'm so excited to have you here. Your career spans television, fashion, DIY, and now a multi-million dollar product brand, which is not a typical path. And that's exactly why I wanted to talk to you. You've done everything from competing on Fashion Star to hosting major fashion shows and building a brand that solves a very real problem for women.
When you look back now, what do you see as the common thread that connects all those chapters and ultimately led you to ROCKNOT?
Orly Shani
God, that's a great question because it has been a journey of unexpected redirections. I did not plan to go from A to B to C to D. But I think that one of the things that I've realized has been a big piece of all of it. It has been my driving force behind all of it is my obsession with individuality and expressing who you really are and feeling really comfortable in your skin and not thinking or feeling like you are supposed to behave or think or look like anyone else.
I felt that when I was a kid. I had this desire to be my own person and carve my own path and I felt that as I started working, the content that I created was all about how can you communicate who you are? How do you own who you are fully and without apology so that you just feel completely comfortable and confident? And so I think that that was a lot of what I did when I was doing DIY work. It was empowering people to do that on a budget because obviously it's very expensive to go out and buy the thing that fits you just right and the this and the that and the style and the whatever. Some people have really expensive taste, and so DIY was a fun way to say like, “Okay, if you are deeply inspired by this really cool new whatever Louis Vuitton gown, let's find a way to take all of that fun inspo and turn it into a jacket that you could wear on a daily basis.” What are the elements that we could apply? How are the ways that we could do it on a budget?
Even when I had my personal style concept, which I still believe is going to become a book one day. I had a book agent and had all this stuff creating it and that's a whole long story. The show that I was cast on went away and then so did the book, which was devastating. But there’s this concept of style language—the idea that we each have a unique style language, almost like a love language. It's the unique way that we communicate who we are through our physical appearance and that's really specific to each of us. Even when I was doing that and doing the online course and working with women, it just was always about understanding who you are, owning it fully, and then showing up that way.
And that's exactly what ROCKNOT is all about as well. An accessory is such a fun thing that can be worn in an entirely different way, depending on who you are and how you style it, the rest of the clothes, the hair, the makeup, the location. It just feels like it's always been about that individuality and self-expression,
Glynis Tao
Your career really took off on Fashion Star. What did that experience teach you about designing for real customers versus designing for creativity or press?
Orly Shani
You know, I would actually argue my career took off with Fashion Star because I remember so vividly when the show was on NBC, right? It came after Project Runway and it was a huge show on a huge network with big names. Elle MacPherson hosted it and Jessica Simpson and Nicole Richie and John Barbados were our judges, kind of like mentors on The Voice. And H&M, Saks Fifth Avenue were the quote unquote judges because they would buy what we designed if they liked it and that was essentially them casting a vote. I remember when we were filming it, we had all of the producers being like, “Your life is never gonna be the same when this thing comes out. You better be ready.” Because it was like it had all the makings of a hit.
One of my closest friends from the show, this guy, Zamiro, who I became very good friends with. There was maybe like a six month gap between when we filmed the show and when the show was gonna come out because they had to actually produce all of the garments. The way that the show worked is the show would air and if, let's say, H&M bid on my piece at midnight, it was available to buy. So we needed that chunk of time for them to actually manufacture the goods, have them in store, and have imagery and all of those things. So we filmed it, six month gap, and then the show came out.
And in that time, I remember he and I, we both lived in New York City and I was a bartender and he would come into my bar all the time. That's how we stayed deeply connected. And I remember he and I being like, “When this thing comes out on Tuesday, I mean, are we even gonna be able to do this? Like, are we able to sit here at this bar? Like, what are we gonna… am gonna have quit my job? Like, what's gonna happen? Like our whole, like, we're gonna be famous. Like, we're gonna get stopped in the streets. We're gonna be taking… we can't take the subway anymore. Like, what are we doing?”
Glynis, that is not what happened, okay? I bartended straight through the entire airing of that show up until the finale, I was behind the bar working because not a damn thing changed. Nothing. No opportunities came.
Glynis Tao
I mean, did you even get recognized on the street?
Orly Shani
No. Nothing. None of those things happened. They had some press events and we went to press events and they made us feel special because we were the cast. They took our picture and did our thing. In real life, nobody gave a shit and nothing changed. Literally nothing changed. And I stayed bartending until how many years later?
I got pregnant with my son when we were living in the city and I was hired on season two of Fashion Star to be like a behind-the-scenes correspondent because they were basically like, “Season one wasn't a huge hit and we think it's because the show is too big. It's like shiny floor, big stage, big lights, big performances, and people aren't connecting to the designers in the way that they do intimately on Project Runway, which feels very intimate and it's a different experience.” And so they thought, we want to do a behind-the-scenes series that connects the two worlds together. And I had come out of season one, not as the winner, but as a bit of a fan favorite, according to them. So they were like, “You're the right person to be this voice because you're familiar from season one and you can kind of exist between these two worlds. And so I did a series for season two. I think it was about a year and a half later, on my first day of filming, I found out that I was pregnant and I did that. I filmed that show in LA.
As soon as that show was done, we moved from New York to LA and I stopped bartending. So like my whole career, there was nothing in the world of fashion that had come. I was bartending and then I got a job as a host. That then led me on this path of hosting and I was on E! and I had my own show on E! with Kristin Cavallari and I would do Fashion Police and Live from the Red Carpet and Live from New York Fashion Week. And then I was on this show called Home and Family and this career of me being an on-camera fashion style personality where those two things came together is what came out of that show, but it was not recognition as a designer in any way. That was just not… nothing changed in that way at all.
Glynis Tao
I guess it was sort of a launching pad for you, for your career as a TV personality. I guess you sort of had that sort of taste of what it was like, being on camera and being on a TV show and having that spotlight, but then eventually leading you to where you are now. It's never just a straight, easy path that people seem to think it is.
Orly Shani
Absolutely not. When you look back on it, it all makes perfect sense and it connects in such a way that had this not happen and this not happen and this not happen, you know? It is such a wonderful thing and I happen to be someone who is very comfortable on camera and really likes connecting and communicating with women in that medium. And so it has felt very natural for me to go along that path. I think that had I started focused as a designer only and not had this detour as like an on-camera personality at a time when social media was really developing, I think that I probably wouldn't have been… I wouldn't have been successful because I would have followed an outdated path.
Once I was more in an on-camera social media type of world, my ability to communicate what I had to offer was so much more innate and it was so much more comfortable and it was so much more a way of doing things that I think it was just kind of the perfect storm. I needed those years of building that up without actually having a brand or anything. It was really just about providing valuable content and being a teacher—teaching people how to do things for themselves. And I think, you know, had I not done that, none of this really would have happened.
Glynis Tao
ROCKNOT became a brand. It started as a DIY idea, right? Do you remember the exact moment you thought, wait, this could be a business?
Orly Shani
Yeah, I just got stopped everywhere I went. So for anyone that doesn't know, ROCKNOT is a collection of sparkling rhinestone statement straps and those straps click onto any handbag, transforming that handbag into a statement bag. So instead of having this really beautiful piece of art, a small little statement bag that is absolutely stunning, there's no denying that, but incredibly impractical, doesn't fit things, can't be worn on a daily basis, I thought it would be really cool to have the strap be the statement piece. And that strap could switch bags because I was so obsessed with individuality and personal style. I'm like, “How am I supposed to decide what your perfect bag is? Like, are you a person who carries the wipes and the pharmacy in your bag? Like you're that person who always has all the things or you're the person who 's like a cell phone and a pack of mints.” The size of the bag, the shape, the color, the slouch, the prints, the whatever. So I liked the idea that this sparkling piece could go on any bag and it could change on a daily basis. It could change midday—that's really cool.
And so I made this DIY and I was wearing it in my regular life, but it is a damn disco ball, no joke. It sparkles like you would not believe. And so I got stopped everywhere I went and I kept sending people my YouTube video and I was like, “I don't make them. Here's my video. You can buy the materials downtown and I'll show you how to make it.” And a lot of people started making it, but a lot of people, understandably so, were like, “Girl, I'm not gonna DIY this thing. Like, I'm just trying to buy it. Just what would you charge me? Just charge me something. Tell me what it would be. I want one. I'm not gonna make it. I'm never gonna make it. I'm not that girl. Charge me.” And I said no, and I said no, and I said no, because I had had two failed clothing lines. And I was like, “I learned my lesson. Like, I'm not a designer. I'm a teacher. That's what I do. I teach. So I'm going to teach you. I'm going to teach you. I'm not interested.” And it just got to a point that it was like a joke.
My husband looked at me and he was like, “This is enough already. You gotta just make these things for people. I can't do this anymore.” Everywhere we went. I had a friend of my sister's who is very successful and can buy anything she wants from any brand she wants. She asked me to make one and I told her the same thing and she said the same thing. “I'm not gonna make it, just tell me what it'll cost, whatever, just tell me I'll do it.” And so I came up with some ridiculous number for one strap. I was like, “It's gonna be like $475.” And she's like, “Great, I will take 10 because I'm doing a Christmas dinner with my girlfriends and I'm gonna give them each one.” And I was like, what? And I'm like, she can buy whatever, so if she's buying this, there's something there.
And with that, I decided to start it and I decided to really look into what it would take to be able to make them at an affordable price because $475 for a purse strap did not feel right to me. That was very misaligned with my messaging of versatility, functionality. I wanted it to be a special piece, but I was not spending $475 for anything. So that didn't feel right to me. So it then led me on the journey of figuring things out like manufacturing and finding the materials elsewhere and all of that. It came out of customer desire and like, saying no, no, no, no, no, and eventually being like, okay, maybe this is different and maybe I need to pay attention to this reaction because I have made a DIY video every week for five years and I have never had this. This is different. And that's just, it was undeniable.
Glynis Tao
Yeah, that's your proof of concept. And you DIYing this strap and getting such a positive response to this product, right? Then I guess that's sort of what that light bulb moment went off and you went like, “Oh my God, this is it!” right? And so at the same time, like you said, you saw a gap in the market, right? A woman wanting statement bags, without the cost or impracticality.
Orly Shani
Yeah.
Glynis Tao
So what do you see as working in the existing handbag market at this time?
Orly Shani
Well, I think what I realized was that women wanted like a hack or a cheat code for feeling done and cool and polished without all of the money and all of the knowledge about what are the cool brands and what are the right silhouettes and what's in and what's out. That's exhausting for most women. Some women love it—it's a sport for them and they love it. Most women I have found are overwhelmed by it. It doesn't come naturally to them. There's an expectation and they don't feel like that girl. And so what I found was that ROCKNOT checked this box of jeans, t-shirts. With ROCKNOT, you look like you tried. And that's kind of what the gap was that it was filling. It wasn't so much that women wanted a statement bag as much as they wanted a statement that did all the talking. So they didn't have to have just the right jewelry paired with just the right shoes, paired with just the right belt like that was too much for them.
ROCKNOT really takes the most basic outfit across the finish line and that's really what worked. As the brand evolved and went from two purse straps to 70, and just purse straps to rhinestone bags, and just rhinestone bags to basic bags and leather bags and nylon bags and phone straps and all of these things, what I realize now actually is that I feel like ROCKNOT's almost carved out a brand new category in handbags. If you think about it, handbags are an absolute necessity in a woman's life, right? Like practically we need it. We need to carry our things. We need to have everything in one place. Sometimes you're just grabbing your phone and your keys. But like most of the time, women need a practical solution to carry their things.
There are two categories currently. There is an everyday basic bag, which is great because it is normally a little larger in size. It's basic and boring. It's supposed to be that way. That way, no matter what outfit you're wearing, you can grab it and go, and it's gonna work. It's just kind of supposed to disappear into the background. It's all about function over form. And then there are evening bags and statement bags that are like a work of art, and they get people talking, and they're show-stopping, and they're special, and they're outfit-making, but they are super, super limiting and delicate, and you cannot wear them on a daily basis. And so they spend more time sitting in our closet than they do in our regular life.
What I have found is that ROCKNOT has created this hybrid category where it's the glamour of a statement bag with the functionality of an everyday bag. And so you get the best of both. And if you want to click that purse strap onto a rhinestone bag for a red carpet event or a wedding, you can. If you want to click that purse strap to a belt bag and wear it to a baseball game, you can. And so that's what I have found now as the brand has grown three and a half years into it. I realized now there was a gap in the market, and we sort of smushed our way in there, but I don't think I saw that when I started. I just thought, “Man, I love the versatility of this. This is cool. She's going to get a lot out of this. She can wear this every day on any bag. That's fun. I like that.” And it was the versatility and customization that I really liked. And now that we have a full brand, I'm like, “Whoa, there was a gap and I think we smushed our way right in there.”
Glynis Tao
It's really evolved like on your website. Like you've got straps, handbags, accessories, jewelries. Like you really expanded the line.
Orly Shani
Yeah, 100%. Like even if you go to that ‘game day’ tab… if you click ‘game day’ and click the button that says ‘customize your set’, it gives you the ability, because one thing that I was realizing is I'm like, women love to look fabulous, right? Like in their own way. And for some women that is super casual, laid back, don't look like I tried. For some women that is like uber glam, bombshell. Everyone's got their style language, but a lot of women love to show up for their team, for the sports that they love, for the kids who play sports, for their college. Whatever it is, they go to a bar to go watch their college team play in some championship and they want to look the part.
We created a game day collection that is 13 rhinestone colored straps with 13 rhinestone key chains. So you can combine your team colors, but then you can separate them and still wear it for a night out. So like, for example, let's say you're a Packers fan. When in the world are you wearing a yellow and green purse strap if not just for game day? Like, you're not. Those colors together are not like a fashionable combo. You know what I mean? So like, no, you're just wearing it for game day and then it's sitting in your closet. But I was like, with the game day collection, you get a stunning emerald green strap that would look beautiful on a black clutch with a black dress for like a date night. Amazing! But you click on your yellow keychain for game day with a clear belt bag. So even that, it was like, how can I let her show up for game day? But when she's off the field, still use these pieces in her regular life so it's worth her money. Like, it's got to do a lot for her for her to spend her money on it and so everything has that multifunctionality in the way that it's designed so that if you're going to splurge on it, it's like girl math. By the time you're done, it's free. Basically, it's free, you know.
Glynis Tao
Yeah. I mean, you didn't set out to start a business, right? You just created your own strap out of thinking like, “This is something that I need”, and you started wearing it. And then it kind of took off. I mean, like, what were the early signals that told you that customers really understood and wanted this concept? And was there anything about the product that surprised you once real customers started using it?
Orly Shani
Yeah, ooh, that is such a good question. I'm gonna jump to that second one first because there is something that I think when you make something with your own two hands, you inherently know it's weak points because you made it, right? So you know how to be delicate with it where needed and where you don't need to. Your customer doesn't know that. And so customers can be rough with their products, right? They just can be, and it's not a bad thing, they just can be. And I had things break in the beginning that I was like, “I have worn mine 742,000 times and it's never broken.” But it was like, yeah, but I know it's weak points. So I'm taking it off.
Like, for example, we used to have these rope chokers that were a piece of the rhinestone cording in a magnetic clasp and it was adhered with glue and it had a lock on it. So in order to open it, you had to twist the lock and pull it out. Well, people weren't twisting the lock and pulling out—they were just pulling to try to open it. And so it was, over time, weakening the adhesive and breaking. So all of a sudden, a rhinestone cord end would come out of the clasp. And I'm like, “I've never had that happen”, but I made it. I know the clasp. So when I take it off, I reach my hand behind me, I twist and I open. Great. People aren't doing that. So even in moments like that, I was like, “We can't do these clasps anymore. It's not intuitive. People are yanking on them, we can't do these clasps anymore.” And so we had to create different clasps. We had some products that we realized the weight, it wasn't strong enough to hold the weight of an everyday heavy bag because there was an issue with the adhesive early on. So I redesigned every single strap so that there was no glue at all. It was made out of one single 20 or 30 yard piece of rhinestone that was put through the clasp, put back through the other end, and then woven back onto itself. So there was no end with cut ends sitting inside of glue. That didn't happen. So there was literally no way that this strap could ever break on a duffel bag. We changed everything.
The biggest advice that I will, if I'm given the opportunity and I can say it, I will say it to anyone that will listen, is you need to start with the smallest possible quantities allowed. And if that means you are paying double, pay double because what happens is your customers will teach you what needs to change. If you have bought into so much inventory that you can't afford to make that change or make that tweak or pull back the ones that didn't work or were broken because you bought into so much that it would literally put you out of business, you are not able to evolve and you're not able to improve.
And so because we'd started with such small quantities, when there was an issue, it was an absolute no brainer to change it. And that's it. If I had to lose the remaining inventory, I couldn't fix it, it couldn't be saved, so be it. And I had to make new ones. And I did that with every single product and I still do. My manufacturers are, I could not have gotten luckier. We will start, they'll let me start, no joke, with like five pieces. I'm like, can I just get five? And I wear mine. My sister takes one, I sell one, I do a little and I give it a month. And if we're good, we're good. And then I move forward. But it is an absolute blessing because every time I get thoughtful feedback from a customer who wears it in a way that I didn't and is like, “You know what? I really wish the inserts had a zipper. It's nice, but the snap, like I'm wearing this bag actually like all the time.”
So what I'm talking about is this. Our first, my first real bag was this bag. It's called the Transformer. It's a woven rhinestone shell with a removable vegan leather insert and I originally had it with just a snap because I thought when people are wearing it, they're just going to want to be able to reach in and grab something out of it. Well, one of the ways that I marketed it and promoted it is this is a fully functioning bag. It's got a zipper closure. It comes with its own strap. It has rings to be able to attach and detach straps to it. It's a clutch. So like, this is a great bag. People were wearing this as an everyday bag and it just had a little snap. And so I got all this feedback about like, “Could there just be a… is a zipper doable maybe?” And we come out with new colors like every year. There's 10 or 15 new colors so that you bought your rhinestone bag once and now you just buy fun colors and it constantly changes for you.
So I made the change. We did a zipper. We recessed the zipper so that there would be no visible hardware so that if you were wearing a strap with a gold clasp or a gunmetal clasp or a silver clasp, you're never gonna see it. These little bags are like little workhorses on the website. They were never intended to be a bag. They were always intended as an insert for this bag. And so little things like that. It was fine because I was only buying 100 in each color. And so by the time it was time to do a new color, I was able to say, “Okay, for this next round, I'm ordering five new colors. Can we redesign it and put zippers in them?” And I was like, “Yeah, sure. Easy.” You know what I mean? So to me, I think that the greatest gift is your customer wearing it and telling you its problems.
The five star reviews that tell you it's the most perfect thing they've ever had in their whole life is the best moment ever, always. But those reviews that are like, “I really love it. I just wish dot dot dot”, that is like my dream. Because I'm like, well, I can do that! You just wish and I can do that, no problem. And it's like, your customers are so smart, they're so smart.
Glynis Tao
Yeah.
Orly Shani
They're wearing it every day. They're putting it through the ringer. And their feedback, they're not charging you for it. You know what mean? Like it's free.
Glynis Tao
Yeah, they're literally testing it for you and giving you their feedback, which is gold in a product business.
Orly Shani
Gold. Yeah, 100%.
Glynis Tao
Like, I mean, you came up with a great design and found the product market fit fairly early on—proof of concept and demand. Then getting it made is a whole other thing, right? And being able to scale that and reproduce a product that you had previously had started as a DIY thing that you made yourself. So I think that is a whole other thing that people have to deal with. I guess I'm sure that was a big learning curve for you at the beginning, but it's just this constant refinement process, I think, in making things better based on the feedback that you receive.
Orly Shani
Yeah.
Glynis Tao
One thing that really stands out about your journey is that you bootstrapped ROCKNOT and built it profitably, which seems to be a bit rare in the fashion world these days. People often go out for funding right away. But why was profitability important to you from the beginning and how did that influence decisions that you made early on?
Orly Shani
Yeah, so it's interesting, because in the beginning I did not know what I was creating, right? I didn't set out to create what ROCKNOT is today. It was a collection of these straps that people wanted and they didn't want to DIY them. They wanted me to make them and I was just going to create a handful of these straps. That was very simple. Investment into manufacturing was easy. I could easily afford to do that. The margins on it were really strong. So when I sold through the first, I had plenty to do a little bit more and do a little bit more and do a little bit more.
And it was all done organically because I had a decent following on my social media from my previous career on camera and doing all of that work. I had this organic audience that was excited and interested in going on this journey with me and buying the products that were now finally available to them. And so there was no need for funding at the time because the investment was so small and every batch that I sold gave me a chunk to do the next one. And I didn't at the time have any overhead. I did every job. There was not a single piece of overhead other than the item itself. And then as I grew, I started doing marketing and so I brought on an ads team and we started running ads and I had a really, really small budget because I am inherently risk averse. I am willing to invest a little bit, but like, let's wait till this thing gets rolling before we invest a lot. And I found an amazing ads partner who was willing to work with me on a really low ad spend daily budget ad spend and a lot of them are not. I didn't know that going into it. So I was really annoyed when I was taking meetings where you were like, “You need to spend a minimum of like 5,000 a month.” And I was like, “5,000 a month?” Like at the time, that just seemed insane to pay their retainer plus 5k and ad spend and not know what was going to happen. And so I worked with someone who was willing to do really low ad spend and we started running these ads and it very quickly hit. We figured out what was working. We figured out how to communicate to the customer and it started working. And so then my little investment into ad spend gave me back a lot and I had even more for the next thing and even more for the next thing.
I think that in a way I never needed it. I never needed the investment for the way that I had because I didn't plan on launching a huge business where I needed to really make a big splash and do a bunch of hires and get all you know. It was like there was no need. It was fully sustainable in itself.
But I think there is also a gut. My dad is an entrepreneur. My dad moved here to the United States when he was 22 years old and didn't speak the language. He took English classes at night, started a business, and took his business. He became incredibly successful and watching him as an entrepreneur, I think that I always felt like a business needs to make money. All of these businesses that have all this revenue and there's no money. I was like, am I crazy? Like that's not a business, Like businesses have to actually make money. Businesses have to be profitable. Like to me, it didn't register as being a real business if you made no money. If your product didn't have enough of a margin to function as a business, you're broken. Like I didn't get that. That was a thing that I genuinely didn't understand. And so to me, it was like, that was the only way to do it. And I think in large part, because that's how my parents were. My parents were entrepreneurs and their business had to provide a good enough value that they could charge enough money to support themselves. And so you have to provide value if you want top dollar. And my dad was high-end in what he offered. And so the value of what he provided had to be so exceptional that it would bring back new people and new people and new people, and that there was enough when everything was paid out for him to have a beautiful life. And that to me is what a business is. And so I didn't go to business school where there were these other ideas of like, you build up a business with high enough revenue and eventually you get acquired even though there's no profit and like, they can get it profitable. Like that thing did not register to me ever. So I think that part of it was inherent without realizing it is that I just was like, that's how one does it, right? You know what I mean?
Glynis Tao
Yeah, yeah. And so many founders are struggling with pricing. This is a big topic, right? How to price your products profitably. So how do you gain confidence charging what the product was truly worth?
Orly Shani
Yeah, I think that there's a lot of intangibles when it comes to how a customer feels about the value. And I think that like a huge piece of it is your quality and your customer service, especially now with brands that are built on social media and TikTok and you see something on some cute girl and she's like, “Oh my god, look at this amazing whatever and I just got it on TikTok Shop and like it's only $20 and like isn't that cool?” And then you get it and the quality is so bad and the experience of trying to return it or trying to get it is so bad and the whole thing just leaves a really bad taste in your mouth. And then sometimes you splurge on something and it's gonna last you forever. And if there is an issue, the customer service is there to handle it and there to fix it and it's worth every dollar. Because the confidence you know that you're not out on your own, if God forbid something happens, is a huge value. So for me, customer service was always like a really big deal. And that's actually last year, not 25, but 24, like, so I guess technically two years ago, that was my big change was hiring a customer service team who's local. They're all local and they're incredible because I found myself tethered to my computer an hourly basis because if someone was introduced to ROCKNOT through Instagram, placed an order, had a concern, sent an email and didn't hear back within an hour, my worry was that they would think we were an internet scam because they've never heard of us before and they just saw us on Instagram and there's a million fake Instagram-y, TikTok-y brands that are not for real. And so I was obsessed with replying right away, replying right away, getting back to them right away so that they knew it was a real person and a real company and we got it, no problem. Yes, of course, we'll change the shipping address. You know, you wanna cancel it, you wanna add something, you got the wrong link, we got you, no problem. And so that was so overwhelming to me. And at the end of 24, we grew so much and so fast that I was drowning. I mean, I was drowning in everything that I had to do in marketing the new products and getting all the things on the webs. I had a full warehouse team at that point, but it was all of the other jobs were so overwhelming to me. And so at the end of 24, I hired a customer service team and I've had them this entire year and I get maybe 10 or 15, I'm very grateful and appreciative of this, five star reviews submitted a day on the website. And I would say 30 to 40% of them mentioned the customer service, which is fucking incredible.
Glynis Tao
Hmm, that really says something.
Orly Shani
Incredible. And I think that has a lot to do with it. I could price something because I think it looks like it's worth 200 bucks and then the experience of owning it is not worthy of $200. It's not worthy of $200. Like that's it. It's just not. So what it looks like is high value. It is beautifully made, handwoven, constructed impeccably. It's going to last you. You're gonna get the compliments in the street and God forbid you have an issue, you are taken care of. And I think that has allowed me to maintain real confidence in my price point. It used to really bother me if someone was like, “$150, what?” and get pissed. It used to like really hurt my feelings. And now I have such confidence that I'm like, it's okay.
I totally get it's a splurge, no problem. But I have such confidence in the price point now because of the value that we offer across all areas, the product, the experience you have when you're wearing it in your life, the intention that's put into it. So it's versatile and multifunctional and you're getting a lot of use out of it. The customer service…
Glynis Tao
You've thought of it all through all the touch points.
Orly Shani
Yeah, I think that's a big part of it. I really do. The product itself is only worth so much for the customer. There is a whole other experience that you really have to think about. We're customers, we've all been there, we know what it feels like. Create the experience like you would want for yourself. It's easy. Imagine your mom shopping. How do you hope she's taken care of? Like, what do I want that to look like? Your sister, your best friend. I feel like to me, that is absolutely the most important and that's big chunks that I feel like add to the value of the product on a whole.
Glynis Tao
Yeah, especially being an online DTC business too, right? You don't have that benefit of being in person—people having the customer service, one-to-one experience and holding, touching, feeling the product—so you want to ensure that people can feel confident and trust. Well, not only is the product good quality, but they'll also like to be guaranteed if anything were to happen or it doesn't work out for them, that they'll be taken care of. And so I think, you know, thinking about an entire loop from beginning to end product and beyond is really important. I think you did a really great job of that. And thank you so much for explaining it. I think that's such great insight.
Orly Shani
Exactly. Thank you. Yeah.
Glynis Tao
So you have a huge advantage that many founders don't. Having years of experience in communicating on camera and telling stories at scale from The Fabulous to the Today Show and beyond. How has a storytelling background influenced the way you market and explain ROCKNOT to your customers?
Orly Shani
You know what's so interesting? When I first started and I first hired that ads team and we were going to run ads and do the thing and it wasn't going to be organic anymore, I had this idea of what that was supposed to look like and it was based on what other brands that I admire did. And they were fabulous photo shoots and they were editorial looking pictures and it really built out something that felt aspirational. And so we started with these photos and it was mainly photo-driven and it was very glossy and it was pretty videos and slow motion. And the ads just tanked. Just nothing. No clicks, no engagement, no shopping—nothing.
I was still doing my YouTube channel at the time. I was doing both at the time for a really long time. I did a video for a DIY and at the top of the video, I was like, “Oh my God—this new necklace just launched on ROCKNOT. I just want to show you guys, I'm obsessed with it. It's really freaking cute and there's two different ways you can wear it. And so I'm just going to show you and then we'll get into the DIY.” And I filmed this necklace and it's called the Crystal Knot Necklace. It doesn't have any glue in the knot and the reason for that is so that when you're wearing it as a choker or you want to drop it down as like a low collarbone necklace, you adjust the knot so that the knot itself is always facing forward and the slope of the necklace is a natural slope because if you think about like a track, know, the innermost lane is smaller than the outermost lane. So when you're thinking about a necklace like that, if you're going to create a U shape, the outermost lane has to be bigger than the inside or it's going to flip on you. And so I was demonstrating why there's no glue and how you can wear it like this versus like this and we clipped it from my YouTube channel and we made it an ad. It exploded. And so Angie, who was in charge of my ads, was like, “Girl, screw the pretty pictures. You just need to make like a million little YouTube videos. You need to just teach. Teach like you teach on your YouTube channel. Teach about every product.” Because in our meetings, when I told her about a new arrival, I would do that. I would show it to her and I would be like, “Look at this and this part goes like this.” And I would explain everything. And she's like, “All of this that you're doing right now, this is your next ad. Do that as an ad.” And so every single new arrival, I teach what it is, how to wear it and why it's going to be an everyday workhorse in your closet. And that's how every single product has been launched. It’s literally me teaching it. And so I think that it has been a really natural and organic way where I'm able to market what's unique about it, but in a way that is educational. So for the customer, by the time they buy it, they feel like they have a full understanding and there's not much surprise when they get it. They're gonna have seen it, they're gonna have seen it move and come off and click and switch and all of these things. And so that's been a huge gift is the fact that I like to teach and I'm very comfortable doing it on camera has allowed me to very organically teach why this product is fantastic and why you need it.
Glynis Tao
Wow, I love that aspect of it. Just combining an educational component to what you do for product business, right? That's not usual. So if someone is building a brand without a big audience, they're just starting out and even like with a new category like yours, where should they focus on first in order to reach their clients and tell the story better. What would you say would be the first step?
Orly Shani
So it probably depends a little bit on their target demographic. Generally, younger is gonna be on TikTok. Little older is gonna be on Instagram and Facebook, so Meta. So that's something to consider. I think you should be on both. I think existing on both is important and this is what's hard for people because if it's not your comfort zone, you don't wanna do any of it, much less all of it. The way that you communicate on TikTok is very different than the way you communicate on Instagram. People are more used to polish on Instagram. It can feel a little bit more perfectly packaged and polished and presented and photos and it can be a little bit more like a magazine. Whereas TikTok should feel like your Instagram stories, where it was a random moment. You threw up your phone, you shared a little something while you were doing something else and you posted it. If it's too like, “Hey guys, I'm here to show you my blood”, like swipe, swipe. No one's watching that. No one's watching that period by the way. Hey guys, should be removed from your language by the way. Just a side note.
On TikTok, you need to just exist very naturally, very organically as you are, very little polish, very little planning, just content consistently and getting it out. And I think it just takes getting used to. And so if you're someone who it's really unnatural to you and it's really out of your comfort zone, I would recommend creating a private account and just recording and posting all day that no one's ever gonna see, just so you can get comfortable and get in the habit of doing it before you feel the extra pressure of people seeing it and having judgment around it. So doing it privately, creating a private Instagram page where you post stories that no one's ever gonna see is really, really valuable. You should watch them back and you'll start to notice habits that you have that you didn't realize you have because we all do it. I realize a lot of the times I start new stories or videos by saying “so.” I'll be like, “So I made this new dress. So I had this thought.” After watching it, I realize I do it and it's annoying. So I'm aware of it and I stop doing it. But it's very hard to notice those little things in ourself if we don't watch it. So I would think that's really important. Start to create that content and do it privately if need be, if you are worried. If you're not and you don't care, then just start. Just start sharing it. And I would always recommend that people break it into 100 tiny pieces.
So if let's say your brand, like for example, we'll take ROCKNOT, right? ROCKNOT is an accessories brand. If I were to do a video and I just talk about ROCKNOT as a concept, the big idea, right? It's like this big, right? And I'm saying ROCKNOT is a collection of interchangeable purse drops and handbags. It's gonna elevate everything you have. Okay, cool. Now I can take a smaller chunk like right here, and I can say, I'm gonna just talk about purse straps for right now. So I'm gonna say, “So the way that we make our purse straps is they're all handwoven and we have stainless steel clasps and they're swivels so that, you know, they're never gonna get twisted on you.” And I can describe the different details of the straps. Well, that's straps in general. I can divide that again into weaves. So now I can do a video on each weave. So that's like eight videos, right? Well, now we have 13 colors, I can do videos specifically on certain colors. By the time I'm done, there can be hundreds and hundreds of videos if you segment yourself into talking points and not try to have the one video that says all the things. It's like you take each thing and then that can become five videos. And that can become five videos. And so you'll have never ending content if you divide it up as best you can. And even if you only have one product, it doesn't mean that you have to have a collection of a million products. You can divide up your product into use cases, into storage, into care, into frequently asked questions,
There's a million things that you can do to take your big concept and slice it up into a hundred tiny ones. And that's why like one of the best things you can do is create videos based off questions. So you do a video, look at the comments. If someone asks you a question, that must become a video. It's a free idea. Take it and run with it and make a video on it.
Glynis Tao
I love it.
Orly Shani
And try to get comments. Say like, “Do you have any questions? Ask them down below. Is there anything that's unclear? Let me know any suggestions you have. Please tell me.” if it's not a gimmicky sales, like, you know, “tapping comment below”, like if it's real, if it's for real, if you're genuinely asking, people will feel that they will give you ideas and questions and you will make content answering all of those questions. It will just become a cycle.
Glynis Tao
How much time do you spend on creating content for your business?
Orly Shani
It goes in waves. So depending on when we have new arrivals, right? So like, as soon as new arrivals come, it's like a sprint to create content. So I need to shoot all of the photos for the website so that we've got all the beautiful photos with all the details. I need to get all those photos over to the ads team so they can start creating visuals off those photos. I need to create my video, my teaching video. So that has to be done. I try to create a styling video that's like, this is how you can wear it. Look at all the different ways. Like this is going to be so versatile this spring or this fall or this winter or whatever. And so it's like a sprint when a new collection arrives. And then it's a little bit of a downtime when I'm posting all of that content and I'm not doing as much. And it's a little bit more, you know, stories. A little BTS. I'm at the warehouse today. This is what I'm doing. And it's more of the founder journey. And that's just a little more laid back, you know, a different kind of content.
But I have found it's easier to get into a head space and create when you're in the right head space. So my first few takes of any video suck because I'm not there yet. I'm a little rusty, it's the morning, I dropped my kids off, I haven't really talked to anybody today, I'm not sparkly and on, I'm quiet. And when I turn the camera on, my energy is quiet and it takes me a minute to get into it and then I'm just talking. And now once I'm in the mode, I might as well make three or four other videos with three or four other things, because I'm here now. My hair and makeup's done, my background is set up, my camera's out, I've got the microphone on, let's do it while we're here. You know I mean? Because it's like half the effort is all that other stuff.
Glynis Tao
Yeah. Yeah.
Orly Shani
You know, the talking takes a minute, but like feeling cute enough to want to talk on camera is one thing. Having good lighting is, you know what mean? It's the, all the other stuff, you know?
Glynis Tao
It is, yeah. So I always like to zoom out toward the end of the conversation. What's a lesson from your DIY days that still guides how you run your business today?
Orly Shani
I think it's actually funny. It kind of perfectly bookends it. It's exactly how we started, which is the focus on personalization and individuality that continues to drive like everything I'm doing. So when I'm coming up with new products, I am envisioning 40 uniquely different women wanting to be able to wear it and making sure that it is going to be something that's going to be able to work for all of them in a different way. And so as I'm working through an idea, making sure that everybody is going to feel like it was designed for them is what is driving me over and over and over again.It's made it really fun for me and it's made it very clear. It's a very clear mission statement. It's just felt very natural, you know, and I think that's what DIY is all about. You know, it's about making it for yourself so that it's perfect for you. You're DIYing home decor, it's meant to fit your unique space, and that's what is so cool about it is that you don't need to buy some store bought thing that’s a little too big or a little too short. You're able to customize it exactly as you want it for your unique space. And when it comes to fashion, it's the same thing. Your unique style language and the way that you want to present yourself every day, we want to make pieces that can support that. That's what DIY is about. And for me, I think that's really what ROCKNOT is about. And so as I'm designing pieces, I always put it through that lens.
Glynis Tao
And finally, what's next for you and ROCKNOT that you're excited about?
Orly Shani
Oh my God. So, so many fun pieces are coming for spring. This has been really exciting as the pieces start to arrive. We have our first drop coming next is all these really beautiful lavender straps. The color is so pretty. Two new inserts for the Transformer that work with the lavender strap. So that's exciting. New spring colors for people who have bought into the Transformer system. They get new colors. We have this new shell necklace, which is the one that I'm wearing that I made last year and I wore it so much. But I sort of missed my window of like summer and then I was like well. Then we're going into fall and then it's a holiday. It's not like seashells. It's not really relevant. So I've been waiting and waiting and now it's coming for spring. We have a new strap called the Confetti strap, which is the first time we've ever made it. It's a mix of six different rhinestone colors and it literally looks like confetti and it is just the most joyful, beautiful happy little strap you ever did see. Three new handbags are coming. New colors. There's so much really fun stuff coming for spring. Some new tops. And there's a new idea, which I think is probably not coming until September for fall, but it's something that I patented—well, patent pending. I'm really, really excited about. It's like a new category.
And so I feel like it's proof to me that all of the ideas that I have for ROCKNOT really does have a home as I start sort of stretching into these new little areas. There's this through line that it feels really easy. It just feels like the easiest thing I've ever done. And so some of these new ideas and new categories and new things are giving me a lot of joy for the future because it feels like I'm never gonna get bored. There's always another idea, you know? And luckily I now have the platform to be able to release those ideas and put them out into the world somewhere and have an audience that's excited about it. So it's pretty cool. So yeah, in the short term, it's really all about the spring and just excited to start sharing it and seeing people wear it then some really, really cool things that'll be coming for the fall.
Glynis Tao
That's so great. I follow you on Instagram. So I follow you along your journey. Where can people find you if they want to get in touch with you?
Orly Shani
Thank you. So the Instagram page for ROCKNOT is @shoprocknot. That's what it is across all social. So @shoprocknot is how that's spelled and it's across all social for shoprocknot.
My personal Instagram is @orlyshani, which is O-R-L-Y-S-H-A-N-I. I'm there personally. I don't post too much other than stories. Like I sort of stopped using it as an influencer and I really share my personal life and what's going on in my life there. That is a place to get in touch. But yeah, I feel like ROCKNOT is probably the best place because it's where I'm most excited to exist right now. So I'm all over that page. My personal, I'm like, eh, whatever, but my ROCKNOT is where I'm most excited to exist. So I'm quite active on there.
Glynis Tao
Orly, thank you so much for being here and sharing your story and journey with us today.
In this episode of Chase Your Dreams, Glynis Tao and Tamara Mainardi explore how style can serve as a strategic business asset. They discuss how personal styling, branding, and sales strategies intersect to create a compelling customer experience. Tamara highlights the importance of a strategy-first approach, the challenges designers and business owners face, and the missed opportunities in fashion sales. They also cover building trust through style, the power of collaborations, inclusivity in fashion, and how taking the pressure off founders can unlock creativity and innovation while keeping fashion playful and personal.
About Tamara Mainardi
Tamara Mainardi is the founder and principal stylist at The Style Edit, a personal styling, branding, digital marketing and business development services company. She helps entrepreneurs show up with clarity and confidence while guiding fashion brands toward stronger sales, sharper positioning, and better customer experiences. With over a decade of experience working with brands like J. Crew, Aritzia, Park & Fifth, Indochino, and Burberry, Tamara brings a strategy-first approach that connects style, customer, psychology, and revenue.
Styling and merchandising can be strategic assets that guide purchase decisions
Trust, authority, and sales are built through thoughtful styling and storytelling
Great products don’t sell themselves—context and connection matter
Collaborations work best when aligned, small-scale, and tested for shared growth
Expertise is communicated through presence, clarity, and authentic enthusiasm
Interview Themes
How can styling be a part of a business strategy?
Style isn’t just about aesthetics—it shapes how brands build trust, authority, and credibility. When styling is done strategically, it can lead to business growth by helping customers understand who the brand is for, what its values are, and why its products or services matter. With the proper styling, brands can influence purchase decisions and customer experiences.
I have a great product, so why isn’t it selling?
If a brand can’t communicate why a product exists or what problem it solves, people can’t form an emotional connection with it. For people to want a product, brands need to focus on crafting a clear and engaging story that paints a picture for how their products can integrate into customers’ lives.
Why do some brands struggle to convert even if they have strong visibility?
Being visible on Google doesn’t mean your brand is memorable. Brands that play it safe or blindly follow trends struggle to leave a lasting impression. Leaning into what makes your brand stand out and experimenting, testing, and having fun are what will make people want to invest in your brand.
How should brands think about collaborating to support growth?
Brand collaborations can be beneficial if the brands’ values are aligned. Starting small—testing one product, one idea—allows brands to learn how they work together without overcommitting resources. The most successful partnerships create shared value, strengthen positioning, and support sales, rather than functioning as one-off visibility plays.
Why do entrepreneurs struggle to be seen as experts?
Entrepreneurs that don’t appear excited or energized about their brand or ideas make it difficult for customers to care about their brand. Authority and trust is established when founders are confident, clear, and enthusiastic about their work.
What changes when founders take the pressure off?
Reducing pressure creates room for creativity, curiosity, and collaboration. Instead of trying to be everywhere and do everything, founders can focus on what truly matters, build community, and grow in a more sustainable way. Taking the pressure off doesn’t slow progress—it often accelerates it by restoring clarity and momentum.
Chapters
00:00 The Intersection of Style and Strategy
05:34 Bridging the Gap: Creatives and Business
06:45 Missed Opportunities in Fashion Sales
09:34 Selling with Authenticity: The Art of Connection
14:03 Styling as a Sales Tool
17:46 Building Trust Through Personal and Brand Style
20:22 Examples of Brands Doing It Right
22:58 The Cool Factor: Standing Out in a Saturated Market
25:24 The Importance of Creativity in Fashion
27:15 Collaborations: Strategic Partnerships for Growth
28:44 Strategic Collaborations: Starting Small
29:35 The Edit, Curate, and Reimagine Methodology
32:33 Finding Passion and Playfulness in Business
34:47 The Importance of Energy and Authenticity
39:05 Taking the Pressure Off in Fashion
40:52 Building a Supportive Fashion Community
Transcript
Tamara Mainardi
If there's anything I've learned, especially from digital marketing and paid ads, especially from a strategic point of view, it’s about constantly testing because you and I can be like, “Oh, that's going to work”, “Everyone's going to love it”, and it can completely bomb unless you actually have the data and the numbers to say, “Yes, this is going to work.” And even that sometimes isn't 100% foolproof.
You do have to have fun with it, try new things, see what happens, and take a moment to actually see what is working, and the things that aren't working. Spend the time to evaluate, and what can you pull from that to get new ideas?
Glynis Tao
Welcome to Chase Your Dreams, a podcast for fashion entrepreneurs who want to build a purposeful and profitable clothing business so they can make a living doing what they love. I'm your host, Glynis Tao, an apparel business consultant and SEO specialist with 20 years apparel industry experience. I'm also a mom to a wonderfully energetic little boy named Chase.
Glynis Tao
Today's episode is all about something that often gets overlooked in business conversations—style as a strategic asset. Not just how things look, but how style influences trust, authority, sales, and how people experience your brand.
I'm joined by Tamara, founder and principal stylist at the Style Edit. Tamara works at the intersection of personal styling, branding, digital marketing, and business development. She supports entrepreneurs who want to show up with clarity and confidence and fashion brands that want stronger sales and sharper positioning and better customer experiences. With over a decade of experience working with brands like J.Crew, Aritzia, Park & Fifth, Indochino, and Burberry, Tamara brings a strategy-first perspective that connects style, customer, psychology, and revenue.
In this conversation, we're diving into how brands can sell their collections more effectively, how to show up clearly online, and how to think about collaborations in a way that actually supports growth. So let's get into it.
Welcome Tamara. It's so nice to have you here today. Thanks for joining me on the podcast.
Tamara Mainardi
Yes, thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here.
Glynis Tao
So, you work across personal styling, branding, and fashion business consulting. How did those worlds come together for you?
Tamara Mainardi
I think it's always just been a very natural progression. I do have a background in business admin. It does fall under hospitality management, but when you look at the big picture, it is business development, business structure. I learned how to really communicate with people, but also listen to what it is that they’re saying in order to really bring things together. I also was an artist in high school, which seems like a million years ago, but I've always just generally been a very creative person and on the flip side, been very numbers focused. So I do have a certificate in bookkeeping and I always like to bring that up because as someone who is very creative and artistic, having something that's, you know, more of a finance or numbers focus, those two necessarily don't always jive. So I feel like work is like a bridge or translator between the two.
Glynis Tao
You describe your approach as strategy-first. What does that actually mean when it comes to style and branding, especially for business owners?
Tamara Mainardi
It's important to really have a foundation and I think be inspired. We spend so much time trying to get to the end result, but we don't actually take the necessary steps to get to the end result. Sometimes that does require trial and error. When I work with my styling clients one-on-one, I really focus on understanding who they are as a person. What are the things that you like? What are the things that you dislike? Focusing on the things that work for you, because if you spend so much time trying to go against the grain, in the end, it's just going to backfire. So for me to have a strategy, it's about really getting messy first because all artists, all creatives, are messy in some capacity because it allows you to find what you're looking for.
As an example, you throw everything on a table and then you can start to organize what is working, but also, go antique shopping or go to the thrift store. Start looking at different objects and different things to be inspired. If you can travel, travel because gaining inspiration will help to form your ideas and help to actually grow and build what you're wanting to achieve.
Glynis Tao
Yeah, being creative myself as well, I know sometimes the process can be a little bit messy before it starts to take shape and become something. Where do you see founders getting the most confused between the style and strategy? Are they really that different? Can you merge the two?
Tamara Mainardi
I may repeat myself a few times on this, but what I constantly see is that creatives create. They're designers, they are maybe business owners, but again, it's bridging that gap. There's a piece where it's like, “I'm just the designer”, but then when you're very small and starting out, you have to be everybody and not everyone is meant to be able to design, create, sell, production—do all the things that come with it because it's a lot of work. You're one human being. One human can only do so much.
So I think it's like giving yourself a little bit of grace and actually saying, “Okay, what are the things I'm good at? What can I really focus on?” And when you have a little bit more money to buffer with, then it's like, “Okay, how can I now outsource and get someone to help so that you can build and scale your brand?”
Glynis Tao
When you look at a fashion brand's collection, what are the biggest missed opportunities that you see in how they're selling it?
Tamara Mainardi
They don't sell it. I mean, I've gone to, I don't know how many markets, how many shows, whatever you want to call it, and I am missing the passion. And it's not me missing it—I'm missing it from them. I can look at something and I need a moment to process, but I can come up with ideas of how it works, where it goes, how it needs to be included in whatever it is you're styling or putting together, and not everybody can do that.
So I think it's really knowing your product, your what it is you have and you gotta get over that hump—you've got to talk to people. And sure, people are not always going to respond, but at least say “hello” because then you are catching someone. Just keep working on that because especially from a sales side, if you go to one person and they say no to you when you're trying to sell them something, and then you're like, nobody wants to buy my stuff. That's one person. If you go up to a thousand people and everybody says no, that's not very likely. You're probably going to get maybe, you know, 10 people or something of that extent, but you've got to really just keep pushing the boundary on yourself because you can't expect things to sell if you can't engage. People spend time thinking like, it's just going to sell itself. If someone's looking at a dress or shirt or whatever it is, they don't understand what it means, why you designed it, how it integrates into their wardrobe and that connection is very much lost.
Glynis Tao
Because you come from a retail background you were telling me about your sales experience, right? And you were like, I guess you built up the skill, perhaps you learned it. I always find it hard to sell and like, it requires you to sort of have thick skin and not feel offended by somebody if they criticize your product, especially if it's your product you designed and made. I found it really hard to be the face of the brand or sell my own product. So, what do you tell someone in terms of how to sell through either through style and service, but not with pressure? What does that look like in practice to you both online and offline?
Tamara Mainardi
Well, you know, not to toot my own horn, but I've been like this my entire life. This is just naturally who I am. I mean, I've been told I should be a realtor, sell homes. When our family was looking for another property, I did all the shopping around and there were a few times I would go back with my mom and they were like, “Oh, do you want us to come?” I was like, I already know what it is, so don't worry about it. If anyone's going to sell my mother, it's me because I know her very well. The rest of you will fail epically. So let's just like, just cut, cut you out altogether.
You know, when I was very young, I would sell parking spots in East Van because I lived close to the PNE. I took bottles back. I have no shame in selling, making money. And to come back to the styling part, more recently I'd worked at Park and Fifth and I thrived there because I was like, “Okay, you're getting ready for an event. Okay, what's the event?” And like having that conversation. I'm your best friend that you could only dream of who is going to be honest with you, but I'm also that person to be like… I can see when someone's like, I'm just not feeling this. I'm like, “Cool, that's cool. You're allowed to have that opinion. Nobody's forcing you to purchase this.” And that to me builds a lot of trust because I think it's well known that there's certain establishments in the city that are very much under pressure sales. Anything, everything looks good on you. And I know for a fact, if you hate something in the change room, when you wear it—or maybe you probably won't wear it—you're going to hate it a hundred times more when you have it at home. So listen to your gut. If you don't like it and you don't feel good in it, don't buy it.
And I think there is something about just being able to connect with people and there are, like you said, talking to people, that's not really my thing. That's fair. If you know for yourself, that's not your genius zone, then don't go there. Stick to where you know, you can really thrive.
And that's where collaboration comes in—to find the people that you know can really come together to help build your brand. I mean, I went to CircleCraft back in, what was it? Whenever it was in December of last year, November, can't remember, it all meshes together. And there are some designers that are very timid in selling. I mean, those are long hours and I get that, but you've got to show a little bit of excitement. These are my clothes! This is what it is! And yeah, people might not like it, but those aren't your people. So you just gotta keep promoting it because the more you promote it, the more that it will get out there, right? And if you're excited, then people will get excited. But if you're a little timid or you're just like, sure, that's one thing. And then there's also those who are seasoned veterans and they're just like, my people are coming. And that's a totally different group. You have to go for it and you have to be proud of what it is you do. I'm like, yeah, like, just do it. Nike's so fast. Right?
Glynis Tao
Just do it. Yes. Well, you seem like you're a natural at it and you sound like you were a really good salesperson that was trustworthy because I find that people can also sense that insincerity, right? Someone says, “Oh, that looks good on you” just to make that sale. Sales definitely can be a tricky one, I think, for a lot of brand owners out there.
So how can brands think about styling as a sales tool rather than just say a visual one?
Tamara Mainardi
I mean, if you look at merchandising, I know merchandising has shifted a lot, especially in the retail space, and to me, merchandising, I mean, I remember as a kid going back past so many stores. I have a thing for Louis Vuitton. I haven't quite figured out why, but I do. It's been a long, long relationship. I remember when I was 11, there was just like a Louis Vuitton suitcase in the display window. And I looked at my mom and I was like, “This is what I need to add to my collection.” And she's like, “My God.” She like just pulls me out. But I’m like, “Mom, I need to get the Louis Vuitton suitcase. We're traveling all the time. This is necessary.” And she's like, “Whose child are you?” because my mom is very down to earth and I live in La La Land. It was the lighting.
Glynis Tao
Just with that—the way it's merchandising really sells a lot. It can do a whole lot, like visually, but also with telling the story through really good merchandising, right? Can emotes, like emotions to people and convey some storytelling, I think behind it as well.
I think I've seen some of their collabs as well and the way they merchandise those and maybe different artists and stuff like that and how they put the product together with the art and the two together. It's like, wow. It's just so visually appealing. They're just amazing at what they do.
Tamara Mainardi
Yeah, it's having fun. I had a conversation yesterday with someone and it was like, have fun with fashion. I was like, yeah, I don't know where we lost that. We were so caught up in these labels, these trends, these stereotypes. I don't know how this is going to come across, but when they were doing the whole mob wife aesthetic, that was a thing. They're like, oh, know, Tamara, you're Italian, blah, blah. And I was like, how do you associate because I'm Italian that now I'm associated with a mob and that's how we dress? Did my Nonna have fur coats? Yes, but she was not. That was a part of her style and not because it was associated or whatever with something. I don't know why we need to have all these labels. We should be having fun with fashion, being creative with it. We should be innovative, trying new things, testing the waters.
If there's anything I've learned, especially from digital marketing and paid ads, especially from a strategic point of view, it’s about constantly testing because you and I can be like, “Oh, that's going to work”, “Everyone's going to love it”, and it can completely bomb unless you actually have the data and the numbers to say, “Yes, this is going to work.” And even that sometimes isn't 100% foolproof.
You do have to have fun with it, try new things, see what happens, and take a moment to actually see what is working, and the things that aren't working. Spend the time to evaluate, and what can you pull from that to get new ideas?
Glynis Tao
From your perspective, how does personal or brand style impact whether people trust you online before they ever buy?
Tamara Mainardi
Gosh, that's such a loaded question. It's really about the user experience, right? People need to come back to you a few times. So first impressions still matter as much as we speak to it's not as important or even just from a branding perspective, as like a human being, how you show up. Are people looking at you like you're an actual authority in your space or do you just look like you don't care? Because if people are putting money into and investing, they want to see at least a pretty picture of something, but that the picture is telling a story that makes sense. So I think, especially when it comes to online, it doesn't need to be easy. It needs to be accessible, but it also has to be that people want to stay on your website. What value, I know people talk about that a lot in business, like what value or what problem are you solving? But generally, do you know the problem you're solving when it comes to style? What is that motion you're trying to provoke or what are you trying to do to help people through clothes?
Glynis Tao
I want to ask you if you can give some examples of some brands you think who are doing this really well. For me on social, I've seen a few brands that stand out. I don't know if you've heard of POPFLEX. It's like a yoga athleisure brand. The person behind the brand, her name is Cassie Ho, who is a Pilates instructor. She has a pretty big following personally as well. She's built up pretty good personal brand, as well as her clothing brand, this POPFLEX brand, and she does all her own Instagram, Reels, it's all her, right? So there's kind of like this merge between her and the brand. I don't know where the separation between her and the brand itself is. It is very merged together. So I think if she has a following of people who really just love her personal brand, I think they'll just buy her anything that she comes out with, right? Like she does all these new launches and drops and new products and stuff, and she's always showing it on Instagram, but I'm wondering, that would probably be a good example of how she built up that trust with her followers.
Tamara Mainardi
I mean, that's a lot. Ultimately, as much as that sounds like an influencer and her brand, she's a saleswoman. It doesn't matter what she sells, people are going to buy because that trust is built between her and her community. So anything she comes out with, they're going to buy from her.
There's an Australian brand called Fayt the Label and the owner, Brittany, she was a YouTuber influencer and she does her own things as her own personal brand, but then she has Fayt the Label. But what's also, I think, really unique about Fayt is the fact that it's inclusive. They have a very wide range of sizing for women. It's not just your straight sizes. It goes, I believe, up to 4X. I'm not 100% sure of the sizing, but it's about having accessibility to those who feel excluded. And that's what's always really perplexed me about fashion. Fashion is supposed to be fun, creative, innovative, but somehow it's also become a very like you're excluded because you don't look like X. Which I don't think is very fair because it shouldn't matter how tall you are, how short you are, if you're straight size, plus size—hat doesn't matter because we're all human and clothing is meant to fit on our bodies. So why are we now, because you're a certain body type, you're not included. I really struggle with this because I know what it's like to be excluded and for me it's like I don't ever want anyone to feel that they don't belong because life throws us all sorts of curveballs and when you're being excluded, it's not a great feeling. So I think that brands that think of who their ideal client is but it's showing that there's openness as well.
Glynis Tao
Yeah, a lot of brands are active on social, but still struggle to be found or remembered. What do you think is usually missing?
Tamara Mainardi
I think it's that cool factor. I know that sounds so simple, but how are you cool? Because at the end of the day, you are cool. You are who you are and sometimes you've got to get out of your shell. Like A Bronze Age is a Vancouver brand and they started with something very small—just their handbags—and now they've evolved to apparel. They've gone back into sort of like 80s, 90s archives of photography, and it's just so cool. You're like, “Oh my god, I want that.”
There’s another designer, I don't know what her name is, but the piece spoke on its own. She takes men's dress shirts and she cuts holes and then puts elastic drawstrings so you can make the hole a little bigger or smaller so it creates more of an hourglass shape. And I was like, this is really cool because now we're repurposing, we're being innovative and just again also having fun with it. Those are things that stick out. How are you different? How are you unique? we as people are all unique and different. Why not be proud of what that is and tap into it more?
Glynis Tao
Mm-hmm. Yeah, without opening a can of worms here, but I was just following the latest on Lululemon and their recall that happened on these sheer leggings. Chip Wilson had chimed in on it and I was reading this thread on LinkedIn. He was just kind of saying how Lululemon has really just lost its cool. I think they've gotten too big and maybe kind of reached that level of mass appeal that people don't want it anymore, right? So yeah, I guess you can sort of reach that level of saturation where it's just like brands are cool and then like, which kind of, I think, creates this opportunity for smaller brands to show up and be different and be unique there, right?
Tamara Mainardi
Absolutely. I mean, this is, I'm going to be known for this and people who personally know me know this. I actually dislike a great deal of the whole black leggings with clothing that's not styled. I don't think that that's a way to dress yourself. Again, I also lived in Italy. I am very much Italian in my upbringing. So that is a huge faux pas. There is, look, there is a way to wear leggings, but stop wearing your Lulus because that is for workouts. I have Lululemon, I'm not going to sit here and tell you I don't, but I wear them to the gym and that is where they stay. You can be comfortable in anything you wear, it needs to fit you, and this works if you're a business owner, if you're a customer shopping. If your clothes don't fit you properly, it's just not going to work and I mean I shopped at Lululemon when it first came out. I remember I went with my Nonna and she just let me go ham on whatever I could buy. And yeah, it did have a cool factor, but I think that we have to be creative. There's so much out there to choose from. You're not subjected only to one brand.
Glynis Tao
Yeah, you had just mentioned briefly about collaborations. I just want to touch on this briefly. So you have collaborated with many different brands, major brands, smaller ones. How should brands think about partnerships in terms of sales and positioning?
Tamara Mainardi
I think it's such a great opportunity. Every opportunity is an opportunity, if that makes sense. I hear a lot of fear and I don't think I can do that or I can't do this. If we keep getting in our own way, then nothing is going to happen. I don't love referencing Kim K, but she has collaborated with so many brands because she has something that she offers and the brands that she works with also offer something. So now you're coming together and building something even bigger.
I mean it would be really cool to see especially here in Vancouver where we have so many different types of fashion brands to choose from. It's astounding. Some of these fashion brands I have seen work with influencers and I think that's great. But I think we need to take a step back and actually learn to work together. There seems to be a really big divide of, “This is my company, that's your company” and we kind of leave it at that. I find it kind of bizarre that people don't actually want to work together in a sense that could be I think pretty explosive in a very positive way.
Glynis Tao
How can fashion brands approach collaborations in a way that supports sales and positioning, not just visibility?
Tamara Mainardi
You have to start small. Sometimes we just want to bite off more than we can chew. Focus on one item, run a test because you do have to ultimately run a test and you have to see how it's going to play out because everybody has their own logistics and their own operations and how they function. So it's finding something, one item, whatever that may be, work on it together and see how it played out. And if that doesn't work, then maybe it's just not a fit in the end, but you don't have to do, for example, like a whole line or these massive campaigns. You can start really small because that's a great way to learn.
Glynis Tao
I just wanted to ask you to just walk us through your methodology. You call it the “Edit, Curate, and Reimagine methodology.” How is it applied to both individuals and fashion brands?
Tamara Mainardi
I don't know, I was thinking about this—if it actually goes in that order anymore—but I think editing is so important. It's taking a moment to really look at the big picture, seeing everything you have. This is both like if you're a store, a brand, or even as an individual, because when you take a moment to really look at everything, I think it helps to provide a lot of clarity. I can be like, “Okay, this is working, this isn't working.” And I say that a lot because at the end of the day, we have to keep testing things. You can't just live in this cycle that just keeps going and going because sure, if it's not broken, don't fix it, but if you want to challenge yourself, you're just going to be in that same loop.
Curation is really about getting curious and finding things that are interesting or odd. There's a lot out there on the internet. If you travel, that shows and exposes you to things that you probably couldn't even imagine. Find the pieces that you really gravitate to and pull that in.
And then I think reimagining is pushing the boundaries on yourself. I think we're all really good at wearing our uniform or the same thing over and over again, but make that one small move to think differently or just try to give it three months, six months and see what happens and then go back and be like, “Okay, this is what I liked about it. This is really cool. This felt really good. We're seeing a lot of progress over here.” It’s just pushing yourself and as someone who's been through a lot—I'm sure everybody says that—but especially having sustained a concussion, you really have to slow down and you have to take a moment to evaluate because you can't do the same thing that you did prior to the accident, right? I learned a lot from that and taking that as a turning point of like, “Okay, where and what do I need to do?” And I think that Edit, Curate, and Reimagine really come together. They all play into each other.
Glynis Tao
Is that methodology, did that come about when you started your business and did you go through this yourself? Is that how this sort of came about?
Tamara Mainardi
I love the word edit for some reason. I don't know why, I'm like edit, just edit everything. I’ve gravitated to it for some reason. Curation has been something I've always just done naturally. I've curated my apartment, I curate myself and how I dress and how I show up. And reimagining is something that's a little bit newer and something I came up with AI because I was just dumping ideas and I needed something, another word to kind of pull it all together.
I use words also as a place to kind of set the tone. I talk a lot about intention and also being disruptive. Disruptive, I know, doesn't always align with people in general, but I'm here to disrupt in a way that really challenges you and again, to reimagine what's happening and to look at it as a positive versus a negative.
Glynis Tao
Amazing. I really love that. Thank you for your explanation. I feel so inspired after talking to you right now and just rethinking about certain things where I feel like, wow. Sometimes as a business owner, you get so deep into it that things become so serious that it no longer becomes fun anymore, right? I'm just like, holy smokes, when did all that disappear? Where did all the playfulness and the fun part of it all go? And I think this conversation has really helped inspire me to think things differently.
So what advice would you give to founders who feel like they're doing all the things, but they're still not being recognized as the expert?
Tamara Mainardi
You know, this is such an interesting question because there's a smaller brand name and she was talking about like, “Hey, support small” and like, “Hey, like me” and not in a negative way. It was very sweet and very endearing, but from my point of view, as a stylist, as someone who's very creative, I'm like, “Where is your energy?” I want your energy. And I think this is sometimes what's missing. You've put so much energy into your work, into your designs, and now you have to talk to people. That's a whole nother ball game. You have to be in front of people and it is not easy. Like I know I can be on, but I tire myself out sometimes too. That might be hard to believe, but then there's moments I'm like, “Okay, now I just need to stop talking to everybody and just shut out for a minute to recalibrate.”
Get excited. To see excitement from brands, and I know not everybody has that and that is okay too, but come in with that and be genuine. Have a conversation because when we start to be like “Support us, support local”, sadly, it just doesn't translate because a lot of brands talk about that. Why do we have to support local? At the end of the day, people are so quick to buy their luxury brands or go to the mall or whatever it is and they're so quick to do that because it's like a knee jerk reaction, right? We know the brands because they've been around for a long time. So now if we're going to support local, why are we supporting local? I know this is gonna ruffle some feathers, but it's true. I support local because I have friends who sell and I myself resell clothes here and there. I do it as a way to also put myself out there—to be able to connect and hear what people are doing. How are they shopping? Why are they shopping? What are they looking for? It really is about being curious.
Glynis Tao
Yeah, sometimes you just have to really dig deep there. It may not always be comfortable either, I think.
Tamara Mainardi
No, it's never comfortable
Glynis Tao
Okay. It's not just me.
Tamara Mainardi
I mean, I worked with a client just a couple days ago and she herself is a creative person and she alluded to some things that are going on in her life and I was like, “Okay, let's really focus on you as a person.” And by the end of the call, once we have gone through the entire process—I have a style strategy call that I go through with clients and it's really from mindset to understanding your shape and colors and patterns and really doing this. You have homework after because they have to process everything. And in the end, she was telling me about this one French brand that she just loves and she got so excited. I was like there we got to it. I was able to burst the bubble of that passion and she's like, “I used to love clothes but now not so much” and she's gone through changes in her life and sometimes you just need someone to talk to just to like get it out and to provoke those ideas—push the boundaries. What is it that you do like? Where do you source your creativity from? And if there's one thing, like I said, that I'm very good at, it's disruption and constantly challenging the way you're thinking because you're doing your thing your way. And it's doing something, sure, but let's try something else and see what happens.
Glynis Tao
If you could give fashion founders one principle to guide how they sell, show up and collaborate, what would it be?
Tamara Mainardi
Take the pressure off.
Glynis Tao
That's a good one.
Tamara Mainardi
Take the pressure off. We live in such a wild, wild world these days. There is so much happening. The left doesn't know what the right's doing and the right doesn't know what the left's doing. It's a wild world. Someone once said to me, “I know there's a lot and you're passionate about, but just pick a spot that you know you can really advocate for.” And I was like, “That's a good piece of advice”, because yes, you want to do everything. You want to be the biggest thing, the grandest thing or whatever and there are certain issues that come along the way, as much as we want all this perfectionism and everything to work out. I think taking a moment of taking the pressure off yourself, having a community you can really build. And I think that would be something really nice in Vancouver and something I'd really like to build as well as having like a fashion community that are supportive of each other because we have a lot of people in this city who are incredible at what they do, but everybody kind of just sticks in their bubbles. It would be so amazing to really come together, share our ideas. I think it would really open the room to collaboration.
Glynis Tao
I love that idea. I am open to this if you want to really explore this idea or something. Bringing people together because I feel like everybody's just working in their own bubble, but then we hardly ever all come together and share ideas and talk and stuff like that. So I'm just so glad that you're here today and we're able to have this conversation. Hopefully, some more ideas for people and who knows, right? I'd love to get together cause I've had a few Vancouver fashion professionals and PR, branding, yeah, styling, different things, designers. It'd be nice to have one place or event that we can go and be able to all meet together and talk about ideas and stuff like that. So that could be a possibility.
Where can people find you if they want to get in touch with you?
Tamara Mainardi
Well, the good old internet. You can find me at thexstylexedit.com. And then on Instagram and on TikTok, you can find us @thexstylexedit. It's the style edit, but there's Xs in there cause I wanted the style edit to look clean. I was like, Xs are going to be my connector.
Glynis Tao
Yeah, I will make sure to have all your links and contact information in the show notes as well. Tamara, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate that clarity perspective that you bring to the conversation around style, branding and sales.
Tamara Mainardi
Thank you. Thank you for having me and I'm happy to share and chat all the time.
In this episode of Chase Your Dreams, SEO + AI Visibility Strategist, Glynis Tao, breaks down why SEO in 2026 should focus on aligning with real business goals to drive growth. She introduces the concept of “business-first SEO”, an approach that prioritizes buyer intent, revenue-driving pages, and clear brand messaging over vanity metrics like traffic and impressions. She discusses how AI search recommendations have transformed brand discovery, what SEO metrics actually matter—such as organic revenue, conversion rates, and brand demand—and how real fashion brands use business-first SEO to achieve 300%+ increases in organic purchases. Shifting from traditional SEO to a business-aligned strategy focused on intent, product visibility, and long-term growth is the key to driving conversions in 2026.
🔥 My Online Visibility Roadmap uncovers the hidden technical + SEO issues holding you back and gives you a clear plan to fix them.
With over 20 years of experience in the apparel industry, Glynis is an expert in creative entrepreneurship and fashion business operations. Driven by a mission to empower and help her clients build e-commerce businesses that are purposeful and profitable, Glynis uses her industry experience to develop data-driven strategies.
Beyond SEO consulting, Glynis is passionate about fostering a community of like-minded business owners. Through her Chase Your Dreams podcast, e-commerce blog, and collection of free resources, Glynis provides guidance and inspiration for entrepreneurs striving to grow their brands.
Takeaways
Business-first SEO focuses on long-term, sustainable growth
Rankings and traffic alone don’t drive revenue, alignment does
SEO should start with business goals, not keywords
AI search favors recommendations over rankings
A clear and consistent brand voice helps AI understand and recommend your brand
Themes
What does “business-first SEO” actually mean?
Business-first SEO starts with business goals, not keyword lists. Instead of asking “What can we rank for?”, you need to start asking, “What will bring in the right people and turn them into customers?” This approach prioritizes revenue-driving pages, high-intent searches, clear messaging, and the full customer path—from journey to decision—so SEO can function as a growth strategy.
Why doesn’t higher SEO traffic always lead to more sales?
Visibility alone doesn’t drive conversions. Many brands rank high, gain impressions, and see increases in traffic, but their revenue remains flat because their traffic isn’t aligned with buyer intent. SEO that only focuses on rankings often attracts the wrong audience—people that are disconnected from products, messaging, and purchase readiness. In 2026, SEO must align with how real customers think, search, and buy.
Which SEO metrics actually matter in 2026?
Key metrics of success include organic revenue, conversion rate by landing page, branded search growth, product feed and shopping performance, and indexability of product pages. These metrics help answer the most important question: “Is SEO helping my business grow?” Measure the outcomes of your SEO strategy rather than vanity metrics for a better understanding of your business growth.
How has AI changed brand discovery in search?
AI has turned search engines into recommendation engines. Instead of asking search engines for products and services that exist, people are asking AI search to make purchase recommendations. AI systems interpret brands using signals like clear product information, structured data, trust, authority, and consistent messaging. AI doesn’t just rank content—it decides when and why to recommend a brand.
Why does my brand voice matter?
Your brand’s voice is no longer just a marketing asset—it’s a visibility signal. AI systems look for clarity, consistency, authenticity, and cohesive positioning across a site. When a brand’s voice is generic or inconsistent, it’s more difficult for AI to understand who the brand is for and when its products or services should be recommended. SEO that actually sounds like you builds trust faster, converts better, and grows your brand over time.
Chapters
00:00 Welcome to a New Season of the Chase Your Dreams Podcast
00:26 The Disconnect Between SEO and Sales
01:50 What is Business-First SEO?
06:03 The Shift from Traditional SEO to Business-First SEO
08:54 SEO Metrics That Matter in 2026
11:16 The Impact of AI on Search
12:37 The Importance of Brand Voice
13:30 The Five-Step Business-First SEO Framework
15:47 Case Study: Business Growth Through SEO Optimization
18:07 Looking Ahead: Future Conversations
Transcript
Glynis Tao
Hi everyone, welcome back to the new year. It's 2026 and I'm so happy to be back with a brand new season of Chase Your Dreams podcast. I'm so excited. I have so many new guests lined up for this year. And as a matter of fact, I've already started recording with a few different industry experts and professionals, as well as stylists, designers, and PR strategists already coming up, so make sure you stay tuned and look out for that.
Let's get to today's topic. If you've ever celebrated a keyword ranking win and then you opened up your Shopify analytics dashboard to only realize that sales have not moved at all, then you are not alone, my friend. I see this all the time. I work with a lot of fashion and lifestyle brands. They often tell me that they are trying to do everything, and to them, it sounds right on paper. It looks right, but they could be ranking higher, having more impressions, more traffic, but when it comes to revenue—flat. That disconnect is exactly what we're talking about here today, because in 2026, SEO is no longer about rankings alone, it's about alignment. Alignment between your visibility strategy and your business goals, alignment between your messaging and how real customers think, search, and buy, and alignment between who you are as a brand and how search engines and AI systems understand and recommend you.
Today's episode is called, Business-First SEO That Sounds Like You: Why Brand Voice Is a Ranking Advantage. If you're tired of SEO that looks impressive in reports, but doesn't move the business forward, this one's for you.
I'm Glynis Tao and I'm the founder of Chase Your Dreams Consulting. I'm an e-commerce SEO expert and AI search strategist with over 20 years in the fashion industry. I've been on both sides of the screen as a founder of a clothing brand staying up late at night, looking at the numbers, and thinking that I've been doing all the things, but the numbers may not have necessarily matched or reflect the effort that I put in. And so, I bring that experience as a founder and now into my business as a strategist diagnosing why traffic isn't converting. What I want to share today is a shift in how we think about SEO—one that prioritizes business outcomes, clarity and brand voice, not just vanity metrics.
Here's a quick rundown of what we are going to be covering today. In this episode, I will be walking through what business-first SEO actually means, why rankings alone don't drive growth anymore, the SEO metrics that actually matter in 2026, how AI search has changed brand discovery, why your brand voice is now actually a ranking advantage, and I'm going to give you a real fashion brand example that led to an impressive 333% increase in organic purchases. Let's do this.
So what is business-first SEO? You may not have heard this term because I pretty much made it up. Business-first SEO is exactly what it sounds like. It's SEO that starts with your business, not just a keyword list. Instead of asking, “What can we rank for?”, a better question to ask is “What will bring in the right people on a site?”, help them understand what we offer and turn them into customers. That shift matters because SEO should be a business strategy and not just a checklist. In business-first SEO, what we do is we prioritize revenue-driving pages like focusing on product collection pages, making sure that we understand the high-intent searches that reflect real buying behavior. Also, having clear messaging on the website that will remove the friction and confusion and thus helping to increase your conversion rate. We're not just thinking volume here—we're thinking about the entire customer journey from discovery through to interest, consideration to final decision.
I know a lot of SEOs kind of just think of top-of-funnel traffic driving activities, but I mean, getting traffic to your site is one thing, but converting them into sales is another thing. This is just thinking more beyond traditional Google rankings. It's all about visibility now and how you show up across AI-powered search results, shopping feeds, recommendation engines, and zero-click summaries.
Search has really changed a lot from your traditional search engines into now AI-powered search engines. You can be visible and still not be the chosen one. What I mean by that is, I've had discussions with people who spend a lot of time working on blogs and content creation, and they're seeing that traffic coming in and perhaps, yeah, they are getting those rankings, but that traffic that they're getting is completely disconnected from the products and the intent and ultimately the sales. For growing fashion brands, it's not just inefficient, it's actually very exhausting to be on this constant content creation hamster wheel. Whereas when I look at a more business-first SEO approach, we are actually treating visibility as a long-term growth asset and not just a short-term win. When your SEO aligns with your business goals, your brand voice, and your customer journey, it stops feeling so overwhelming and starts to feel more supportive.
I'm just going to talk briefly about the difference between traditional SEO versus business-first SEO. Nothing wrong with that. I spent years doing this exact process of working just solely on traditional SEO and working on increasing rankings and traffic. Ultimately, at the end of the day, what do brands really want? They want sales, right? Let's take a little step backwards. Traditional SEO is what we tend to focus on more activity metrics like rankings or impressions and traffic volume and looking at the numbers in our monthly report. Content is often created to chase those keywords without really fully considering what buyer intent is or product relevance and revenue impact. Business-first SEO starts with the actual business goals. What is the customer intent and long-term growth strategies? We want to be sustainable and grow beyond those initial rankings and traffic. We want to grow the business long-term and be profitable and sustainable, right? The way we would measure success through a business-first SEO strategy is that we will measure success through qualified organic traffic. Not just traffic, but is this traffic actually qualified? We can look at different metrics just within your Google Analytics dashboard. You can tell whether or not the traffic is qualified or not by conversion rate—a big indicator—revenue generated through organic search, engagement rate, or how long and time spent on site, as well as your overall brand demand. Are you starting to feel more momentum coming as a result of this traffic that you're getting to your site? There are ways to be able to measure this. Instead of reacting to every algorithm update, business-first SEO really focuses on clarity, consistency, and building the foundations that will perform well across both traditional and AI-driven search.
I'm going to talk a little bit about why rankings alone don't drive growth anymore. There was a time when ranking number one felt like a finish line. That time is now over and I'll tell you why. Firstly, because of AI-powered search. With AI overviews and summary style results, users often get answers without even clicking. Secondly, zero-click searches. Many searches now are ending up in result pages. Third, shopping and visual results of product carousels and feeds often appear above organic listings. And finally, misaligned content—ranking for keywords that don't actually convert or grow a business. So SEO today is really about understanding how people move from discovery to consideration to decision. And if your strategy stops at “we rank”, then you are solving the wrong problem.
I'm going to talk about SEO metrics that actually matter in 2026. If rankings aren't the goal, then what is? Here's what we track in a business-first lens. We track organic revenue—not just traffic, but actual sales that are driven by organic and shopping visibility. Number two, we also track conversion rate by landing page. Which pages are converting and which attract attention without action? Number three is brand search growth. More branded searches usually mean trust and demand are growing. You can monitor and see how much of your search traffic is a branded search versus non-branded. Number four would be product feed and shopping performance, this is especially critical for fashion and lifestyle brands. Making sure that your product listings are very clear and concise for search engines as well as shopping channels to really be able to understand and show your products on various shopping channels, Google shopping. The fifth thing is make sure your product pages are indexable to search engines because if search engines and AI can't index your products, then they can't recommend them. All these little components are really important. These metrics answer a better question, which is, “Is SEO actually helping the business grow?” As a founder, the better question to ask is “Is SEO actually helping the business grow?”
I'm going to talk about how AI search has changed the game. AI didn't just tweak SEO, it has refined discovery. Search engines are becoming recommendation engines, basically. People aren't just searching for what exists, but they're asking about what they should choose, like one thing over another. They can make comparisons now. This means that AI systems will be prioritizing clear product images, clear product information, consistent brand signals, structured data, trust, and authority. You want to build trust and authority across your website. Here is the key thing to note: AI doesn't just rank content—it actually interprets brands by recommending them based on someone's search. AI is not just there to rank content. It's using all these signals to interpret the brands, which then brings us to something that more SEO strategies completely overlook. This is the part that no one really talks about or that no one talks about enough. Your brand voice is no longer just a marketing asset. It’s actually a visibility signal. What AI systems are looking for are things like consistency, clarity, authenticity, positioning, and cohesive messaging across your site. When your brand voice is vague, generic, or inconsistent, it's harder for AI to understand who you're for and when to recommend you. This is where my SEO guiding principles come in.
When I talk about our SEO guiding principles, what I really mean by that is that we believe that SEO should serve your business and not the other way around. SEO is not just about rankings, but it's about aligning your visibility with your business goals, brand voice, and long-term vision. These principles really guide everything that we do. When your SEO reflects these principles, it doesn't just rank—it resonates. SEO that sounds like you builds trust faster, converts better, and compounds over time.
I'm just going to walk you through my five-step business-first SEO framework so you get an idea of what that is. This is the framework that I use with fashion and lifestyle brands. I conduct an audit and we're not just looking at technical issues, revenue drop-offs, and conversion friction. Step two is that I prioritize high-intent keywords. That means ones that are product-led or at the category level, solution-aware searches. And number three is that I align content with the customer journey. You've got to make sure that the content aligns with where the customer is within their search journey. We have to create awareness content that should support purchase decisions. Step four is indexing a product. Feed visibility. If products aren't eligible to appear, then they basically don't exist. You have to make sure that your pages on your website are being properly indexed and visible to search engines so that they can bring them up in the search results. In step five, you want to measure your revenue and know where your revenue is coming from, how much you're generating month over month or year over year, and just looking in terms of perhaps seasonality. What are the trends that are common within your business so that you know that, okay, if it's a seasonal product, then perhaps that’s why there is a dip in sales for one month. You want to also look in terms of like, if that is the case, then what are the opportunities there to create demand or more evergreen products that could be sold more on a year-round basis? And so you're seeing less of those dips in revenue and hopefully seeing more consistency in your revenue and adjusting your strategy to those fluctuations.
I just want to mention a case study for a client, one of my favorite examples, which is one of my clients who runs a golf, tennis, and pickleball brand. When they started out, they had traffic, they had rankings, but their sales were flat. What we did was we focused on clear product aiming, stronger intent alignment, improved internal linking, clean product feeds, and bio-first optimization. Through that, optimizing their product feeds was a huge one that really helped boost their organic purchases in Google Shopping. We tested it out at the end of Q3, early Q4, and throughout Black Friday, Cyber Monday, which to them, Q4 is typically their slower quarter because majority of their products are golf, tennis-related. It was very seasonal. By applying this strategy, we were really able to see a huge lift, which was a 333% increase in organic product purchases, higher average order, and stronger brand demand. We just use very simple, straightforward SEO strategies and we were able to see these results quite quickly in quite a short amount of time. I can say that these strategies actually do work because we have tested them out firsthand with our client site.
I just wanted to give you a little preview of what is coming up next and this is exactly why you'll be hearing more founder-focused conversations on this podcast. I have upcoming episodes that include stylists talking about positioning, designers sharing how they communicate their value, and publicists breaking down their visibility and credibility, because SEO doesn't live in a silo. It interacts with brand, PR, merchandising, and messaging and that's where real growth happens.
So to close off, I would just like to say that SEO is not a checkbox, but it can actually be used as a growth engine when it's aligned. If you're ready to move beyond rankings and build SEO that actually supports your business, I would recommend you start with an online visibility report or please reach out if you want to learn more about how we can help you build a strategy that will future-proof your brand and website in this age of AI. Feel free to reach out to myself and my team, and we'd love to help you with your strategy. Let's help you turn visibility into momentum and traffic into sales.
Thank you for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode.
In this episode, Glynis Tao reflects on standout moments from this year’s Chase Your Dreams podcast, highlighting three fashion ecommerce strategies for entrepreneurs. Through expert insights from founders, this episode explores how to optimize your content for AI search, ecommerce growth strategies that work, what it takes to build a community-driven brand, and more! Learn how to stay authentic, stay adaptable, and continue to grow personally and in your ecommerce business.
🔥 My Online Visibility Roadmap uncovers the hidden technical + SEO issues holding you back and gives you a clear plan to fix them.
With over 20 years of experience in the apparel industry, Glynis is an expert in creative entrepreneurship and fashion business operations. Driven by a mission to empower and help her clients build e-commerce businesses that are purposeful and profitable, Glynis uses her industry experience to develop data-driven strategies.
Beyond SEO consulting, Glynis is passionate about fostering a community of like-minded business owners. Through her Chase Your Dreams podcast, e-commerce blog, and collection of free resources, Glynis provides guidance and inspiration for entrepreneurs striving to grow their brands.
Takeaways
AI search engines are becoming top funnels for online discovery.
Helpful, original blogs are integral to improving AI visibility in AI search.
Building community is essential for brand loyalty.
Customers resonate and connect with genuine, values-driven brands.
Systems help businesses scale and reduce burnout.
Entrepreneurship is both a personal and professional growth journey.
Interview Themes
As a small business, how do you build an authentic audience/community that connects with your brand?
Consumers are valuing authenticity more than ever. A cookie-cutter online persona just doesn’t work anymore. When you share a genuine and human side of your brand online, people connect with it. They get a full glimpse of the real, tangible person behind the business. Customers aren’t just buying the products anymore. They’re buying into the company, their story, their values, and the feeling that they provide.
How is discovery changing for ecommerce brands with the rise of AI?
AI-powered search is quickly becoming one of the top funnels for discovery. With tools like Google AI Overviews and Perplexity summarizing information online with ease, shoppers spend less time searching and more time relying on these AI summaries. This means that your product pages, blogs, and other webpages are now data sources for AI. The clearer and more detailed your content is, the better your chances of showing up in AI search results are.
How can blogging help my ecommerce business be discovered by the right customers?
Company blogging is gradually shifting away from traditional, diary-style posts and is instead being written as educational, curated content. Modern blogging is essentially content marketing. They establish credibility, prove expertise, and send trustworthy signals to AI search. The result of well-written, optimized, and helpful blogs? Strong AI visibility and organic growth for your ecommerce business.
Why are systems essential for scaling an ecommerce business?
Without systems in place, founders become bottlenecks resulting in minimal growth. As Laura-Jean learned through The E-Myth, documenting processes, defining roles, and creating structure within the organization will help transform a chaotic small business into an efficient scalable company. Systems allow founders the freedom to focus on innovation rather than fixing issues.
Chapters
00:00 The Journey of Entrepreneurship
02:42 The Evolution of Blogging and Community Building
05:55 Building Brands with Heart and Values
08:36 Adapting to AI and the Changing Retail Landscape
14:26 The Importance of Systems in Business
19:43 Navigating Personal Growth in Entrepreneurship
Transcript
Laura-Jean Bernhardson
Anyone can start a business. It's so fantastic. And yeah, it is great and anybody can start a business, but don't expect it to be easy. Expect it to challenge your sense of yourself. I think that would be the most important thing. If you can deal with yourself and your blocks and hangups, then you can learn all the rest of the stuff. You just have to be able to be ready to embark on the journey.
Jeanel Alvarado
It's funny because everyone that I talk to thinks that blogging is dead. No, it is not dead. Maybe blogging about your cat, what your cat ate today is dead. Okay, maybe that's Substack. You can get a small niche of people interested in that day to day. That sort of blogging is what people think about when they think blogging. No, the same thing is how the retail industry changed. Blogging has changed from what it was. So the new blogging is really that influencer marketing hub, right? So even when you see nowadays, when you see a content creator, an Instagram girl, and she is talking about her 10 best picks, that's what used to be a blog. You would blog your top 10 picks, right? But now people showcase their top 10 picks. I think it's about how you think of blogging and the essence of blogging is not dead.
Rhea Lana Riner
I think when you operate by a set of values and you stay true to your word, your customers see that. I've learned that community naturally builds around brands that we all love and that we love to share. I love this about this brand and this is this wonderful product that I got. And this is this incredible customer service that they gave me. And I think those things all build community.
Glynis Tao
This year on Chase Your Dreams, I sat down with founders who built seven figure brands from kitchen tables, living rooms, consignment racks, daycare pickups, and old school blogs. Today, we're pulling together the biggest lessons from 2025 so you can build a brand that actually lasts in this wild new AI-driven, always changing world of fashion and retail.
Glynis Tao
Welcome to Chase Your Dreams, a podcast for fashion entrepreneurs who want to build a purposeful and profitable clothing business so they can make a living doing what they love. I'm your host, Glynis Tao, an apparel business consultant and SEO specialist with 20 years apparel industry experience. I'm also a mom to a wonderfully energetic little boy named Chase.
Glynis Tao
This year, I had conversations with some incredible founders and leaders, women who bootstrapped from their living rooms, retail and media pros who've watched e-commerce evolve over the last decade, franchise founders creating community-driven values-led brands, and leaders at the cutting edge of AI and retail search.
In today's Best of 2025 Roundup, I'm weaving together seven of my favorite conversations into three big themes that kept coming up again and again. Theme number one. Build with heart and community. Theme number two, adapt and systemize in a changing retail and AI landscape. Theme number three, know yourself, own your season and play the long game. Think of this episode as a highlight reel and mini workshop. As you listen, I want you to ask yourself, where am I already strong and where do I need to grow next?
All right, let's dive into theme one. When you look at the founders who are still here, 10, 20, even 30 years later, they have something in common. They don't just sell products, they serve people. They lead with heart, community, and values. No one embodies this more than Rhea Lana Riner, founder of Rhea Lana’s Children's Consignment Events, which she started as a small clothing swap in her living room in 1997, and has now grown into a multi-million dollar franchise with over 120 locations. Let's start with how she thinks about values and community.
Rhea Lana Riner
I think for me, it has always been about connecting to the heart and making sure that I understand the needs of their family and their children. We have certain values that we go by—honesty and positivity—and I think when you operate by a set of values and you stay true to your word, your customers see that. They see how you fill orders and how you, if someone complains, how do you handle customer service?
Are you kind and are you authentic? All those things play out in normal business operations and I think those things build brand loyalty and they build community because I've learned that community naturally builds around brands that we all love, know, and then we love to share, I love this about this brand. And this is this wonderful product that I got. And this is this incredible customer service that they gave me. And I think those things all build community.
Glynis Tao
What I love about that is how simple and practical it actually is. Rhea isn't talking about some big, shiny community strategy. She's talking about how you fill your orders, how you respond when something goes wrong, whether you're kind, transparent, and consistent. That's what creates loyal customers who say, hey, I love this brand, you should check them out. And that came up again and again this year.
Brands that aren't built on hacks, they're built on how you treat people. Another guest who really reinforced this was Laura-Jean Bernhardson, a longtime Toronto designer and retailer behind Fresh Collective who ran multiple boutiques for over two decades and now coaches women entrepreneurs. She talked about how her brand became memorable because it was fun, human, and distinct, and because she built a sense of belonging around it.
Laura-Jean Bernhardson
I had no real intention of like, I'm going to start a business in fashion, because it was so insane. Like, how would I do that? But I had been making things and selling them as a teenager. I had a bikini business in high school, and I made jewelry and stuff like that. I kind of had this like, you can make things and sell them kind of mentality. But another thing that really stood out was the Knitting Queen.
So that's the cover of the catalog. This is a catalog that fell apart, sadly. So there you can see some of the styles and stuff. But I did this kind of shtick of like, I'm Laura Jean the Knitting Queen. So you can see I've got a yarn wig and I'm wearing a crown. And then I called the assistants who worked in my shop and who helped with the production, I called them Knitting Princesses. And that Knitting Queen thing became so sticky, like years after I stopped knitting. People would be like, wait, aren't you Laura Jean the Knitting Queen? You know, I was unexpectedly getting these lessons in business in terms of branding and in terms of making yourself stand out.
And oh yeah, another thing. Now you're making me realize how much that made me stand out. Another thing I did was, this is at the back of the catalog, and I made handmade buttons. So my buttons were shaped like a cat face or a flower or like all of these different things that made it really unique. And in my shop, you could even pick out, I had those little drawers where you store like nails and things. I had buttons where people could pick out their buttons. And so that became a sales lesson of mine where I would see someone trying on a sweater and if I told them about the buttons at the right moment, their decision would switch from, should I get this sweater to, which buttons should I pick? So I realized that was another thing that ended up being like, this makes it really unique. And suddenly they're fishing through, trying to find all the blue cats that are gonna make their sweater look perfect. Or we had letter buttons so they could get their name.
So yeah, even though it was a totally different time, the basics still apply. It's the exact same thing of like making your business unique, your unique value proposition, your branding that stands out, that's catchy, that makes people excited. All that stuff, it's all the same.
Glynis Tao
There's a common thread here. As you can see for Rhea Lana, it's values and service. For Laura-Jean, it's playful, distinctive branding and a joyful in-store experience. In both cases, people weren't just buying clothes—they were buying into a story and a feeling. And that connects beautifully to my conversations this year with sustainable fashion founders like Andreanne Mulaire of Anne Mulaire and Shannon of Simply Merino, who both talked about building brands around values and connection. You hear the same pattern. When your brand is anchored in something deeper than sell more clothes, people feel it and they stick around. So I want to turn this back to you for a second.
If you're listening and you run a fashion e-commerce brand, here are two reflection questions you can actually journal on later. What values do I want my brand to be known for? How do you treat customers when things go wrong? What do you refuse to compromise on? And two, where concretely does community already exist around my brand and how can I nurture it? Maybe it's your best customers who always DM you on Instagram or a local group who shows up to your problems or people who always reply to your email newsletter. You don't need a giant Facebook group to build community. You just need to serve people well, consistently invite them to what you're about.
All right. Now let's move into theme two where things get a little more AI-flavored. If 2024 was the year everyone noticed AI, 2025 has definitely been the year we started feeling the impact in search, shopping, and retail. Over and over again, my guests talked about adaptability. Adapting from brick and mortar to e-commerce, adapting from blogging to media brand, adapting to Google's AI overviews and AI powered shopping tools, and adapting internally by building systems so your business can actually scale beyond your brain. No one captured the big picture of where retail and search are headed better than Jeanel Alvarado, founder and CEO of RETAILBOSS and co-founder of Stylebuy. Here's how she described the shift from social discovery to AI-driven discovery.
Jeanel Alvarado
I know there are a lot of people resisting the AI and it was almost the same thing with people resisting the e-commerce back when e-commerce was becoming something where it's like, sure, we'll just launch a site, just to have it. AI, same thing. Some people are maybe, okay, we'll maybe tweak some things. But over time, it may become the number one funnel, right? We got to think about that. So right now we talked earlier that people discover through social media. I really think Google, as well as Perplexity, really they are trying to be that they want to be it. Social media had its run for discovering products. Google and these AIs want it back. They want to be, hey, you want to discover new things? We are the place. So that is where I'm seeing things going and just how they're doing things because same thing—social media doesn't really encourage people to leave the social media app. They like people to stay there. Google is trying to figure that out. How can we make people stay here, right? And we can feed them ads and we can feed them products that they like and we can provide them news that they might be interested to. How can we keep them here? That is what I believe on the real behind the scenes of what really is going on here. So that's why people really need to see this as, okay, if social media is so saturated and there's just so many people dancing around and there’s just too much noise, where are people going to go next to discover? And I think Google AI, AI Search is really trying to capture and be that new top funnel.
Glynis Tao
I love how blunt she is about it. Social is noisy. AI search wants discovery back. That's huge for fashion brands. It means that your website and your product pages are no longer just online brochures; they're data sources for AI. The brands that will win in this next phase are the ones who actually describe their products properly, talk about materials, sustainability, fit, certifications, and build up content and credibility so AI tools trust them enough to recommend them. And that ties so nicely to another thread Jeanel emphasized. Blogging is not dead, it's evolved.
Before we jump back in, I want to take a moment to share something that can genuinely move the needle for your e-commerce brand heading into 2026. If you've been wondering why your traffic has slowed, why your products aren't showing up in Google, or how to get your site ready for AI-powered search, my Site Audit Plus is the place to start. It's a complete deep dive into your website that includes your technical SEO, keyword and ranking opportunities, performance insights, a full competitor and content analysis, and now your AI visibility score, so you know exactly how search engines and AI models are interpreting your brand. You'll walk away with a clear roadmap, prioritize fixes and actionable recommendations to help you increase visibility, traffic and conversions. Future-proof your brand in AI driven search. Start with my complete site audit. Go to glynistao.com to learn more.
Jeanel Alvarado
I was just bombarded with so many requests just from a few blogs and that's when I realized, this is a great way to gain credibility. And one of the strategies or one of my takeaways for people today, I would definitely tell them is something that was told to me and it was let your work do the work for you, right? So like let your work network for you. Maybe one day you're thinking, I wish I could get more sales or I wish I could get more of this. Always think about, how can I make my work work for me? So if I want to gain attention, I need to put in some work. So that's what I always say and with that, yeah, we just kind of upped the content. We upped what we were doing. We upped the insights, right? If in the beginning, when you give insights, it does seem interesting to everybody. But then it comes to the point where it's just like, we've heard this before. You always got to up it to something else—correlate, benchmarks. So I always have to try to be ahead of the industry. So right now, a lot of our content is related to AI tools or what kind of AI solutions can help you grow your brand. That's what keeps us interesting. It's not just about a strategy that's the oldest and tested time. People want this strategy today and who's using it and who's doing it well. And because if it's timely, relevant, and successful right now, let me pivot and do it right now because any kind of strategy, it might just be a blip. It might just be a moment in time where that's working because what I learned in economics, there's so many external factors and timing is huge with any kind of trend you're going to jump in. And I'm sure you know this with social media, think about TikTok. The brands that got on TikTok when TikTok was hot, when people bought on TikTok and those live feeds, they really gained momentum there.
Glynis Tao
I guess what you're saying in terms of the brands who adapt quickly are the ones that will see success. I love what you said. Let your work do the work for you.
Jeanel Alvarado
Don't be out there trying to convince anyone. Do the work. If you say, I, it could be anything. I do SEO really well. Okay, well show me something that you do on a constant basis that's working. Okay, for me, I could be like, yeah, well I have scaled a publication that gets between 40 to 100,000 visitors a month. It's like done—the work speaks for itself. And then you yourself, like with the case studies and I've taken this company to this. People need to see the work. It's no longer, I don't think it's ever been about saying that you're good at something. People see you're good at it. That's when they contact you.
Glynis Tao
If you listen to this podcast for a while, you know I'm gonna say it. This is exactly why I keep banging the drum about creating helpful blog content, building up your case studies, having your FAQs and how-to guides clearly listed on your website, having story-driven articles that show your expertise, right? Want to think about EEAT because AI tools look at patterns across the web, not just your homepage. The more your brand shows up as being helpful, consistent, and trusted by others, the more likely AI is to pull you into those answer boxes, shopping carousels, and long-form AI overview responses.
And adaptability came up again when I talked to Leticia Viedma, founder of KAMI, about her transition from being an M&A lawyer to growth marketer at Rent the Runway, and now to building a Spanish-crafted footwear brand. She talked about bringing her growth marketing brain to product-based entrepreneurship and why serving customers with a truly high quality product is still the core.
Glynis Tao
You led the growth team at Rent the Runway. What were some of the biggest takeaways about scaling a DTC brand?
Leticia Viedma
Yeah, I think I touch on one of them, which is that the product is super important. You really need to build a company around the product that solves consumer needs. So I think that's kind of like number one for consumer businesses. And number two is really being customer-obsessed. What I mean by that is people have limited bandwidth and limited head space. And so I really believe that the way to grow your brand is if you're able to tap into people's needs and problems and position yourself as a solution to those needs and problems. So those two things like product and customer first are really important.
Glynis Tao
And so are you able to apply some of the lessons that you learn from working at Rent the Runway to KAMI's early stage growth?
Leticia Viedma
Yeah, I mean, hopefully. I definitely am trying to, on the one hand, really nail and scale a performance marketing engine. By that, I mean optimizing the site, really delivering on a solid email program, kicking off paid advertising across paid social and paid search channels. And so that is table stakes and you need that. But then I'm also really focused on growing that authentic organic community of people that gravitate toward the brand and that are going to become your advocates and that are excited to hear about the brand. And so I'm doing two things. I'm starting to really spend some time on organic social content. I had to get over myself. I don't like social media. I didn't have TikTok before and now I'm just trying to get out there and film some content and really put a face behind the brand and create that personal connection.
So that's on the one hand. And then on the other hand, I've started to build connections with creators and influencers who I feel are brand-aligned and are also passionate about the brand and that story resonates with them. I'm starting to build that community of future brand ambassadors, hopefully.
I think one thing I'll say is that one of the themes of my nonlinear career path is that I think everything is figure-outable. I really think that the difference between people that are able to do it versus people that are not is just a matter of how passionate are you about this problem? How many hours are you willing to invest in trying to solve this, in trying to figure this out? In trying to find the resources, the network, whatever it is, like how obsessed are you with this problem? And then you figure it out. So I think it's a combination of passion and hard work.
Glynis Tao
I love how her story mirrors so many of ours. Your first business or first career isn't quote unquote wasted. You're building a toolkit. And when you decide to launch a brand, you can bring all of that into a more aligned and purpose-driven direction.
But there's one more piece to this adapting puzzle that came up again and again. It's really hard to adapt if everything lives in your head and that's where systems come in. Laura-Jean described this so beautifully when she talked about reading The E-Myth and realizing she had built a business that could not function without her.
Laura-Jean Bernhardson
What really allowed it to grow was putting systems in and really for me it was a big shift between sort of my small business and a company. And that took like a long time, you know, building those systems and documenting them and training people on them and having them really just flow throughout the whole business. But it allowed me to not be the bottleneck anymore. So people didn't have to come to me and be… Like prior to that, my small business, everything lived in my head. So it was like, can we buy this fabric for the clothing line? Sure. Can we do, you know, we need a new stapler for Kensington. Okay, I'll add it to my list or go buy one. I've approved it or whatever. It was all me. And I, of course at the time, didn't really know what to do and how to make it anything else. But then I read the book, The E-Myth, The E-Myth Revisited, subtitled Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It, and that book talks about really building your small business into a company. It described me perfectly as the sort of frantic business owner who was running around doing everything. If I got hit by a bus, the business was gone. And this really, the step of adding the systems and creating all of that stuff, including like an org chart, different positions, we really created like a company flow to it where people had their jobs and it was understood what they could make decisions on or not and we had like meetings to review the things and you know, all that stuff.
So that made it run a lot smoother. If there was one thing that made a difference, that made a difference. I couldn't have got to a seven figure business without that. After I read The E-Myth book, I did hire a coach from E-Myth worldwide. They have a program. So I did that for about six months and I cried most of the time through it because I think I was 17 years into my business at that point, and I just felt like, God, I've been doing things so chaotically and there was a better way and I just didn't know about it. And so it really just felt like, oh my God, this sort of, I guess regret that I didn't do it sooner. So then I really understood the value of coaching and expertise and so on. And so over time, I've hired different coaches for different reasons or different, or I take a course on like, you know, marketing or whatever. I'm always looking to build something that's like, whether it's self-improvement for myself to be a better entrepreneur, or it's something to build into the business or whatever. There's kind of always room for expert help, basically. I just saw the difference of like, can struggle through things on my own, or I can hire someone who knows how to do this and then I know how to do it.
Glynis Tao
This is one of my favorite quiet lessons of the year. You can't really take advantage of new opportunities like Google Merchant Center, AI-powered shopping, wholesale deals, or even just consistent content marketing if you're stuck in reactive mode—putting out fires all day. Systems aren't glamorous, but they are what allow you to adapt fast without burning out.
So here are two questions for this theme. Number one. Where do I need to update my business for the AI era? Are my product titles and descriptions clear, detailed and customer friendly? Do I have at least a few substantial blog posts or guides that show my expertise and values? And number two, where am I still the bottleneck? Is there a repeatable task I can turn into a simple SOP checklist or a Loom video this month? What's one system that I can put in place so my business runs more smoothly, even on my tired days? And we all have those days, right?
Alright, we've talked about heart and systems. Let's end with the most human theme of all, the one every founder wrestles with. How do I navigate this as a person with a body, a family, and a finite amount of energy? If there's one thing all seven guests agreed on, it's this. Entrepreneurship is not just a business journey, it's a personal growth journey. It will challenge your sense of self, it will expose your fears and your patterns, and it will ask you to grow again and again. Let's come back to Laura-Jean for a moment. Near the end of our conversation, she said something that I haven't stopped thinking about.
Laura-Jean Bernhardson
Anyone can start a business. It's so fantastic. And yeah, it is great and anybody can start a business, but don't expect it to be easy. Expect it to challenge your sense of yourself. I think that would be the most important thing. If you can deal with yourself and your blocks and hangups, then you can learn all the rest of the stuff. You just have to be able to be ready to embark on the journey.
Glynis Tao
I love how honest that is. You don't have to be born a business person. You can learn marketing, SEO, systems, hiring, finance, but the hardest part is often you versus you. Working through your fears about visibility, selling without feeling pushy or salesy, letting go of perfectionism, allowing yourself to be seen as a leader. The theme of inner work and seasons of life came up powerfully with Rhea Lana as well, especially around motherhood and capacity.
Rhea Lana Riner
I think a great perspective for women is to think through that there are seasons of life. Life is different. When I was getting started, I had three small children. Well, now I'm a grandma and I've got an empty nest and I've got five grandchildren. And I think if we can have that perspective that life does change, then it gives us the long-term view and some seasons, at least in my journey, I had to work a lot of hours. I mean, entrepreneurs. I'm sure you experienced this too, Glynis. I mean, there are some years where I worked a lot. I mean, probably 60, 80, 100 hour weeks. Now, I don't want to do that for 20 years, but there are some times when we do have to do what it takes and I think if we can, again, think through the seasons of life, and we don't want to do that when our kids are small, they need us. They need us to be present. But as life changes, we do have more to give. We've got more bandwidth. We've got more time. And it is fun. I've always looked at building a business a lot like raising children. You nurture it and then you get to watch this beautiful thing grow that you've poured your heart into. And so it is a wonderful thing, but I do think we have to balance the demands of family and business and think through what season of life am I in.
Glynis Tao
As a mom myself, I felt that deeply. There are seasons where you can take on big projects, travel and stretch yourself, and seasons where your capacity is smaller, maybe because of kids, caregiving, health, or just life. That doesn't make you less of a CEO. It just means you have to build a business that respects your season.
And finally, I want to end on one more note from Rhea Lana that ties together purpose, resilience, and legacy.
Glynis Tao
If you could go back to that first living room clothing swap that you did, what would you tell yourself now about the journey ahead?
Rhea Lana Riner
I would say, first of all, Rhea Lana, you can do a lot more than you think you can. So be brave, buckle up, and just give it your best shot. There's a wonderful path down there, but you just got to keep putting one foot in front of the other and it'll be a remarkable journey.
Glynis Tao
I love that as a closing note because it honors how hard this is, but it also honors how capable you are. You don't have to see the whole 30-year path right now. You just need to keep taking the next brave step: setting up that email opt-in, publishing that first blog post, fixing your product titles, saying yes to help, or finally raising your prices to match the value you provide.
Alright, let's quickly recap the three big themes from today's best of 2025 roundup. Number one, build with heart and community. Number two, adapt and systemize in a changing retail and AI landscape. Number three, know yourself. Own your season and play the long game because entrepreneurship will challenge your sense of self. You can do more than you think. Just take one step at a time.
So here's my invitation to you. Before you jump back into your day, pick just one small action from this episode. Maybe it's rewriting a single product description so it truly reflects your values and materials. Maybe it's starting a simple SOP for something you do every week. Maybe it's blocking off time to journal about what season of life you're in and how your business needs to honor that.
And if you want more support as we head into this new AI driven era of e-commerce, I'd love to help you. You can learn more about my Sit Audit Plus and my SEO Plus AI search services at glynistao.com.
Thank you so much for tuning into this best of 2025 episode on Chase Your Dreams. If you enjoyed this roundup and it gave you even one idea you want to try in your business, it would mean a lot if you hit subscribe, follow me, and share this episode with another fashion founder. And it would be great if you leave a rating and review so that we can reach more entrepreneurs who need this kind of honest practical support. Here's to building fashion brands that are profitable, purposeful and built to last in any search algorithm, in any season. See you next episode.
Glynis Tao
Thank you so much for tuning in. You can find me on Instagram, @glynistao, and my website, glynistao.com. Please subscribe to Chase Your Dreams podcast if you haven't already. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with others who you think this may help. Lastly, it would be great if you left a rating and review for our podcast. See you next time!
In this conversation, Glynis Tao discusses the importance of adaptability in today’s changing e-commerce landscape. With the popularization of AI-driven search, Glynis emphasizes the importance of foundational SEO best practices that still apply. Through a case study, she shares how one of her clients used strategic blogging to earn a citation from AI Overviews, resulting in an increase in visibility and organic traffic. She also discusses what makes a valuable blog, how to build trust with your audience, performance metrics that you should be monitoring/measuring (besides just clicks), and more. Websites and SEO are not disappearing—they are evolving.
🔥 My Online Visibility Roadmap uncovers the hidden technical + SEO issues holding you back and gives you a clear plan to fix them.
With over 20 years of experience in the apparel industry, Glynis is an expert in creative entrepreneurship and fashion business operations. Driven by a mission to empower and help her clients build e-commerce businesses that are purposeful and profitable, Glynis uses her industry experience to develop data-driven strategies.
Beyond SEO consulting, Glynis is passionate about fostering a community of like-minded business owners. Through her Chase Your Dreams podcast, e-commerce blog, and collection of free resources, Glynis provides guidance and inspiration for entrepreneurs striving to grow their brands.
Takeaways
Adopting an adaptability mindset is key to staying ahead in the e-commerce industry.
Creating consistent and helpful content will keep your brand relevant.
Strategic blogging will drive visibility and organic traffic to your site.
Valuable blogs are often ones that answer common customer questions.
Schema and metadata helps search engines understand your content and increase your site’s visibility.
Establish trust with your audience by sharing expertise.
The earlier and faster you adapt to industry changes, the better.
Interview Themes
Why is adaptability so important for e-commerce brands today?
Consumer behaviour and new technologies, such as AI, are constantly and rapidly changing the online retail landscape. If brands aren’t adapting to these changes, it’s easy to fall behind. It’s more important than ever to adopt the adaptability mindset and be open to learning new tools, platforms, and strategies to gain a competitive edge and stay relevant in the e-commerce world.
What is AI search? How can brands use SEO to rank higher and increase organic traffic through AI search?
AI search is a search tool that uses artificial intelligence to parse through, summarize, and cite webpages with relevant information in response to search queries. It’s a new way for people to streamline their search. Instead of manually clicking through websites to find the information that they need, AI search does that for them.
This affects how consumers discover brands, how they perceive brands, and how they shop. For brands to increase their visibility and organic traffic through AI search, they can optimize their websites with SEO strategies. Best practices like strong metadata, schema markup, and keyword optimization will help your website rank in AI search alongside well-structured content.
What are the benefits of blogging?
Consistent, helpful, and question-driven blogs help build authority and trust which increases the likelihood of a website’s content being cited in AI-driven search. Knowing what content your audience needs and will find valuable is key to creating blogs that will drive organic traffic.
What practical steps can brands take to improve their site’s visibility?
To adapt to the changing retail landscape, brands can do the following:
Identify the most relevant customer FAQs and turn them into blogs.
Optimize product pages for title tags, metadata, and schema.
Build trust through founder stories and customer testimonials.
Commit to creating consistent, high-quality content.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
01:30 Adopting the Adaptability Mindset for SEO
04:14 Fashion Brand Case Study: Increasing Visibility in AI-Driven Search with Blogging
13:07 Visibility in Search Engines That Aren’t Google (Bing, Yahoo, and More)
14:43 Practical E-Commerce SEO Strategies in the Age of AI
18:19 Q&A Session: SEO with GoDaddy, Squarespace, and Wix
23:01 Conclusion
Transcript
Glynis Tao
Hi everyone, welcome back to the Chase Your Dreams podcast. I'm so glad you're joining me again for Ecommerce SEO Strategies in the Age of AI, part two. If you haven't listened to part one yet, I recommend going back to that episode first. In it, I shared how the e-commerce landscape is evolving, the key challenges brands are facing, and what SEO strategies are working today. In this second part, we're going to dive even deeper. I'll be walking you through real world case studie—including a fashion brand success story—and showing you practical action steps you can take right now to future-proof your online store in the age of AI search.
This is a continuation of the webinar presentation I hosted on October 9th as part of my SEO School educational series. If you want to stay up to date with the latest SEO and AI trends, follow me on Instagram @glynistao or visit my website at glynistao.com. All right, let's jump into part two of Ecommerce SEO Strategies in the Age of AI.
Glynis Tao
Welcome to Chase Your Dreams, a podcast for fashion entrepreneurs who want to build a purposeful and profitable clothing business so they can make a living doing what they love. I'm your host, Glynis Tao, an apparel business consultant and SEO specialist with 20 years apparel industry experience. I'm also a mom to a wonderfully energetic little boy named Chase.
Glynis Tao
Another quote from Jeanel is, “If you're not adapting to how consumers shop today, you're already behind. Agility is the new competitive advantage.” I know all this tech is changing so fast. You're like, “oh my God, I’m not a techie person.” “I don't even know what to do.” “Where do I even begin?” It's so overwhelming and you're probably being bombarded by all these other messages of what you should be doing and I totally get it because I can relate to this. I feel like I'm in the same boat.
What I want to present to you is just very simple, very strategic ideas and concepts and strategies that you can implement when you get off this webinar today because really, it's not that hard. I want to keep things very simple and to let you know that even though things are changing fast, a lot of the SEO best practices still apply. Okay. So making sure that your foundation is there and then layer on the AI stuff. Having that adaptability mindset is important right now. It's not like, well, when I change—you have to change now. Even if it means taking small steps right now, or at least just having the level of awareness and knowing what's happening right now and being prepared for it, I think, is important.
That can mean testing a new tool, like AI assistance, chat box, personal search, if that works for your business. Tracking performance, making sure you're measuring the right data, how your impressions are performing versus your clicks. How much brand visibility do you have? You're not just looking at clicks, but you're kind of looking at the overall picture. What are people saying about you? There's lots of data that you can look at just to make sure that it's not just one thing, like your traffic giving you a very pretty picture right now, but maybe there's other signals that are happening out there, other conversations people are having on your brand. You need to understand that as well and monitor those impressions and know what your AI visibility is, beyond just clicks. Make sure that you are staying nimble because whether we like it or not, AI search will keep evolving.
I want to share a real-world example from client work that we did that we used the blogging strategy that I had just mentioned previously to help land their blog content into an AI overview placement. This AI overview citation that showed up also increased their visibility and we saw a revenue lift from organic traffic. There's so many benefits to having your brand or your page or website show up in AI search because it also helps to build that authority and credibility within AI-driven search. Even doing a few searches within the search engines themselves and seeing what comes up and if your content is even showing or coming up. You don't even need any fancy tools to do that. So, you could just do a search for a particular question or topic or something. What every article is covering or talking about, you can just look that up and see what comes up.
So for example, what we did for one of our clients, Nomi Designs, which is a fashion brand based in Victoria, BC. I'll show you this case study will show you how they were able to grow their visibility in traffic using content clusters that I mentioned and blogging. So the results were that they had a higher AI overviews visibility, increased sales from organic traffic—organic traffic is their highest traffic channel. This really shows you the power of blogging. Here's an example of what we did, in terms of building up the content clusters and having them write their blogs.
This shows you a few examples of blog articles on their website, but if you notice, there's these two articles here, “How to Pack Linen Clothes for Travel.” This is, by the way, a linen clothing company. This article that they wrote on “How to Pack Linen Clothes for Travel” and “Can You Wear Linen Clothing in the Winter?” These all came about as me asking questions to the founder and owner of the company. I'm like, what questions do you get asked a lot? What are some FAQs that you've got? And she's like, you know people will firstly have this misconception that they think that you can't wear linen in the winter and we're in Canada, right? So our winters can get cold and she's like, well, I really want to break that myth. I want to give them some truth and some information that linen can be insulating and you can layer it and wear it with other fabrics like wool—you can layer them and they can be very warm. So she wrote this whole article just around this topic of being able to wear linen clothing in the winter. Well, this article is one of her top performing blogs and shows up in AI overviews.
Same with this, “How to Pack Linen Clothes for Travel”, because as we all know, what is the one characteristic of linen fabrics? They tend to wrinkle, right? Nobody wants to travel or take linen clothing with them for traveling. So again, she wanted to break that myth and write this whole article on how to pack linen clothes for travel. Again, this is one, another one of her top-performing blogs.
So I'll show you just what that looks like here in terms of the type of results that she got for, “Can You Wear Linen Clothing in the Winter?” Say we did a Google search here for the benefits of wearing linen in winter. This comes up in AI overviews and also the first result links to the Nomi Designs blog, “Can You Wear Linen Clothing in the Winter?” She's also the number one organic result too. So there you've got three—like there's a link here, there's a link there, and there's also the organic SEO link. So there’s three places where this page shows up. This really shows you the power of blogging. Lesson here is consistency plus helpful content equals being relevant and we said relevance is very important.
I'll show you these results here. It's a screenshot of Google Search Console that shows you top pages, one being her homepage. Second is this blog, “Linen Clothing for Canadian Winters.” It's our second highest performing blog. In the last three months, you can see the number of clicks and impressions that this blog has received and you can see that it just goes on an uptrend. So this blog is definitely driving traffic to their website—to the Nomi website. And I can tell in their Google Analytics, their direct and organic traffic channels are their highest revenue-generating traffic channels, even better than social media. And she's not even running paid ads and she does a little bit of email marketing. But right now organic is totally driving her traffic and bringing in the revenue. I'd say about 50% of her revenue right now is coming from organic search. That all-in-all shows you the power of blogging and how it can help your site establish itself or build a sense of authority and be a trustworthy brand, but also help show up in the search engines, results pages and being cited in AI overviews. This is also a way for new customers to discover your brand because through this popular search, can you wear linen in winter is a very popular question. This helps with discoverability and brand awareness. If somebody is just typing that in Google Search and your article comes up, that's another way for them to discover you.
Also when you are creating this content, like I said, if you're a founder, owner, designer, sales marketer, you want to make sure that your content is working for you. So not only are you writing this piece of content and it's working for her right now, bringing in sales, but also, you could take this content. You could repurpose it into an e-letter, into your social media posts. I use the same strategy for myself. I also take it and I also create podcast episodes, YouTube videos, Instagram reels, YouTube shorts. It's endless what you can do with this one piece of content. And then that way it makes sure that everything that you create is all aligned. And then, if you think about it, your distribution, right? You want to make one. Create the content once and then distribute it everywhere across all the channels.
So have I convinced you yet on the importance of blogging? Yes, awesome! I really believe in it and I do this myself for my clients and it really works and you can see the results here. And just another quote from Jeanel, the founder of RETAILBOSS, she said, “Brands that survived the retail shifts are those that adapted fastest to digital and content-first strategies.” Now, you know a little bit more of what's happening in the AI landscape—how commerce and retail is changing, what are some of the challenges people are facing and, a case study of a simple strategy that you can use to get your brand to show up and increase its visibility.
Somebody has a question. “I do all these things and Google isn't showing my site in search results, only my social media channels. DuckDuckGo has no issues. I think about it everyday.” Well, you know what? If it's showing up on Bing, then that's not a bad thing because ChatGPT is pulling their data from Bing. Nowadays you're not just optimizing for Google. You're optimizing for Yahoo, DuckDuckGo as well. So I wouldn't discount these other search engines because ChatGPT is saying that they are citing from Bing. So don't be discouraged and don't give up. Another thing is I would check your indexing on your Google Search Console. Check your indexing and see if those pages, like your blogs, are being indexed on Google. This could be a matter of that, you know, they should be indexing it, but sometimes it could use a little push because the Internet is such a vast place and there's so many websites. You can do a manual index and submit it to Google. Make sure you have a Google Search Console set up. Make sure you submit your site map to it to trigger its crawling and indexing. Also index those individual pages as well. So check that. Hope that helps.
I want to give you a few practical steps that you can do today to get started. Like I said, it doesn't need to be this big, overwhelming, daunting job. You can just start small. You can identify the top three customer questions and turn those into blogs. Like I said to Helen as well, make a list of top questions that you get asked all the time from customers and those could be potential blog article topics. Audit your product pages for technical SEO basics. Add schema markup and optimize your metadata. Basic SEO best practices here. Title tag, meta descriptions, image alt text, H1 H2 tags are still important. Building trust is important. Showcase your founder story, values and reviews. I don't think a lot of brands do that. It's unfortunate because I work with friends and on one site, they're looking and I'm like, their products are so beautiful, but their “about” pages really don't do them justice and they don't really tell the full story. And so I will really try to build that up and tell your story, your brand, your founder story, why you started it. Why does it exist? I also had written a blog specifically about AI search optimization and that's what that QR code is here on the screen. If you want to learn more, you can just scan that QR code and you can read the blog. The blog actually covers it more in detail and goes through it.
You want to make sure that you’re checking your Google Shopping listings because it's been found that they're pulling like… Google shopping is another way that you can be found. You don't have to pay for ads—Google Ads. There's also Google Organic listings. So it's just a matter of optimizing your product pages, making sure your titles, pricing, images and policies all meet Google's standards. You could start by updating your top product pages, having more specific product descriptions, photos, and including keywords within the titles and the descriptions and, like I said, writing helpful blog posts that answer common questions that you get from your customers because AI tools are often pulled from blogs. So when you're giving the answers to those common questions, then your content is going to be readily cited more. Just make sure that your content is original and helpful. Commit to consistency. So even starting with one blog a month. It's better than none.
Okay, I'm almost done. I know we're reaching the end of this session, so I just want to say, in summary, websites are not going away, but the role of the website is transforming. SEO is not dying—it's evolving from ranking for clicks to structuring your site for AI agents. The brands that are able to adapt early will become preferred sources for AI systems, thus winning visibility and sales in this new ecosystem.
So now I’ll open up the floor for any questions that you have or feel free to share any current SEO challenges that you're facing with your e-commerce business. Does anyone have any questions? If you have questions, you could put them in the chat or unmute yourself.
Webinar Attendee #1
Actually, Glynis, hi, thank you so much. I have a question. So I actually run my own online nutrition business consulting and I used GoDaddy to create my website and then I also do a blog on there as well. I'm just wondering is it better to use a different platform just for SEO and ranking because currently with GoDaddy, I just have a website builder and I have limited access to SEO.
Glynis Tao
Does it have a place for you to edit your title tags with meta descriptions?
Webinar Attendee #1
It does, yeah. It has that feature.
Glynis Tao
Have you checked your rankings in Google Search Console?
Webinar Attendee #1
Yeah, I have been. So I have been looking into that, but it's not performing very well, so that's why I'm just asking the question. I think you kind of answered it in one of the questions. I do a lot of recipes, so I don't have recipe schemas on there. So I wonder if that would help.
Glynis Tao
Yeah, I'm not sure how robust GoDaddy is, honestly. I’ve come across a few of those. I haven't worked on GoDaddy sites. I mostly work, I'd say like 90% of my clients’ sites are on Shopify, a few on Squarespace and Wix. So I'm actually curious to know how GoDaddy performs on SEO, but I feel like if you have the ability to do those optimizations and that you are doing them and tracking them as well, because you want to be able to measure, right? And see, is it even making any difference before and after you've gone through and optimized. Go through those recipe pages. Just see if you can add schema and then just ask their support and so the important part of your website, you want to make sure that those are showing up in search engines. Technical backend stuff is important and making sure that there's nothing potentially blocking your site too, on being crawled and indexed. There's some checks in place that have to be done to make sure there's nothing potentially venting your site from being indexed in the first place and then knowing how your site is performing currently and then start to make a few improvements on it. Maybe picking a few articles or recipes that you think are more popular amongst your audience and going in and optimizing. I always say, optimize for one focus keyword, that way you're able to track it and see if you are even ranking for that keyword and how high you are currently ranking. And then it may require some on-page tweaks as well.
Webinar Attendee #1
Okay, thank you.
Glynis Tao
Yeah, hopefully that helped.
Webinar Attendee #1
Yeah, that's great. And in your opinion, I was thinking of switching over possibly to Squarespace or Wix just so that I have more functionality. Which one do you recommend or prefer?
Glynis Tao
Between the two?
Webinar Attendee #1
Yeah.
Glynis Tao
Well, in my experience, I'm with Squarespace over Wix. I think Wix has a lot of these customization functions. Either can, if you know how to use them, they're good, but if not, it can be very confusing and even for me, I find it a little hard to work with a Wix website. Squarespace, I find a little bit more user-friendly.
Webinar Attendee #1
Yeah, like they're pretty much drag-and-drop, right?
Glynis Tao
Yeah. I feel like it's a cleaner interface.
Webinar Attendee #1
Yeah, no, for sure. Thank you.
Glynis Tao
Yeah, no worries. And if you do do that and you move to a new website platform, I would recommend that you make a list of your current web pages because you want to make sure you redirect them. Say if your pages are performing and a page in particular is performing, you want to preserve that traffic, right? So make sure you map it out and then make sure you put the proper redirects in place.
I know we're reaching the top of the hour, so I really do appreciate and thank everyone for attending the session. And as a bonus for attending this live session, I am offering all attendees a mini site audit and strategy session where I will provide custom recommendations on how you can future proof your brand for AI. So to take advantage of this offer, scan the QR code you see on the left, book a call with me, and the first three people who book a call will also receive an AI visibility report. I think it's really important to know where you are right now and where your site stands in order for you to then decide on the next steps and what to do. And I would love to help you with that.
So I hope you all found this webinar to be helpful. I know there's a lot of information, but I try to bring you the most important and relevant information for you. It's a simple, easy way that you can hopefully take and start to implement some of these steps in your business.
Glynis Tao
Thank you so much for tuning in. You can find me on Instagram, @glynistao, and my website, glynistao.com. Please subscribe to the Chase Your Dreams podcast if you haven't already. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with others who you think this may help. Lastly, it would be great if you left a rating and review for our podcast. See you next time!
If you need help building your SEO strategy for the age of AI, please reach out to me. Call or visit my website, glynistao.com, for SEO strategy and services. I have a new page up now dedicated to AI SEO, and I'll have other free resources and more to help support you along your journeys. Until next time, take care.
